Controversial Subject

Controversial Subject

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134 posts
27 July 2013
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Does anyone know if the police are aware of this thread yet ?

Posted 1 Aug 2013
paulbatterbury
Photographer
paulbatterbu..
Wow, can’t believe I missed this thread, Iain, indeed, a number of things you brought up that I completely agree with, even when I started out in this game I had a firm set of ethics and have brought these up in the past, to have no one listen.

I think you have to remember that their and good and bad people in this world, in everything we do. Warning people about the bad people, is fine, if it is justified (which means evidence to back it up). If there is no evidence and people are scared to speak out, then nothing can or gets done and bad thing will continue to happen.

I have been shooting coming up for 10 years now, and in that time, the stories I heard about agents, photographers and models have all been… interesting, much in the way of a soap opera.

Filtering out the good from the bad can be simple, as long as you know who is who. I have always thought that an on-line forum when the peers of the industry pick who is allowed access on the credit of their reputation and proof of their work was the best idea, allowing all to then all openly talk about such things, without the threat of legal action.

Fact is most people can’t afford legal action anyway, and it a bluff most of time.

It is true that there is no smoke without fire, but it depend of lit the fire, if it was started be someone who has done something wrong or by some vindictive wanting to make life hard for another.

Apart from everyone being tarred with the same brush by the media or those outside the industry (after all, we not all perverts and slappers) on of the most annoying things for me, is the frustration of getting by all this crap, and getting real paid work done and produced.


Posted 3 Aug 2013
TheStudioMK
Photographer
TheStudioMK
Alas this as gone on forever (not to say that makes it right) And it's most definitely not only the adult industry where it exists... I remember a certain well known Fashion Photographer saying he'd slept with 10,000 models... now I am sure this wasn't down to his dazzling good looks or bubbly personality... The casting couch mentality, the association that you scratch my back I'll scratch yours definitely is out there...

There are then the more horrific stories... I read the one where the model said the photographer cum on her boobs, surely this is sexual assault and should of been reported to the police ? To me a photographer that would do this will just get worse, and the next model could experience something far worse...

Posted 3 Aug 2013
paulbatterbury
Photographer
paulbatterbu..
TheStudioMK
I remember a certain well known Fashion Photographer saying he'd slept with 10,000 models... n


I doubt that claim can be true, even if he allowed 1 a day, that would take him over 27 years, to achive 

The story linked  to Iain's post, and I am sure someone already told me about, but I thought that the the person in question had already done some bird for the same charges before, is this right?  


Posted 3 Aug 2013
TheStudioMK
Photographer
TheStudioMK
Hmmmm maybe it was a 1000 then... cause your right, even if he was in the industry 40 years it would be 250 a year !!!

Posted 3 Aug 2013
flashysnapper
Photographer
flashysnappe..


Please do not go muddying the waters of this thread, It is too serious a subject to be diverted.
the fashion photographer and his sexual exploits are nothing to do with Iain's thread
And nowhere in the article does he say  they were models.
Posted 3 Aug 2013
Edited by flashysnapper 3 Aug 2013
TheStudioMK
Photographer
TheStudioMK
Sigh... GENIUS !

Posted 3 Aug 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
TheStudioMK
There are then the more horrific stories... I read the one where the model said the photographer cum on her boobs, surely this is sexual assault and should of been reported to the police ? To me a photographer that would do this will just get worse, and the next model could experience something far worse...
Well obviously its a sexual assault and a serious one at that, but if you read her full account she explains why she did not go to the Police. The following paragraph is not directed at you in particular, its just a general comment. One of the commonest themes is "Well why didn't she go to the Police", "She should have gone to the Police", "Why didn't she resist", "Why did she let him do it" etc..etc...blah, blah, blah. If you have not been the victim of a sexual assault, you simply do not have the right to criticise or give retrospective advice to those who have been victims, as you cannot put yourself accurately in their position or make any valid claims regarding what you would do yourself if placed in a similar situation.
Posted 3 Aug 2013
flashysnapper
Photographer
flashysnappe..
TheStudioMK

Sigh... GENIUS !


No not a genius or a sarcastic a*** just some one who thinks this thread is too important to be taken even slightly of original OP's topic
Posted 3 Aug 2013
TheStudioMK
Photographer
TheStudioMK
No you are right I have never been a victim... but then what is the point of this thread ? If victims don't make a stand against these idiots it will go on forever... if the people who experience these acts don't speak up then nothing will get done, and as I said the next model may experience something even worse...

The bottom line, and my reason for posting the link to the fashion photographer... is in our industry there is a group of people who believe this is part of the industry... I should also mention some models don't help, as I know models who offer "extra services" to photographers, yes basically escorts... so some photographers immediately (and wrongly) assume that all models do...

I remember one photographer coming to my old studio and saying "you shoot ***** don't you" he referred to a model I shot regually... I confirmed I did, to which he informed me he was due to shoot her soon, and went on to say "I'm going to F*** her too" I was about as shocked as can be, especially as the model concerned was a topless only model... I informed him "I don't think you will" to which he told me (and haunts me to this day "Every model as a price, you just have to come up with the right number to get them into bed"

Needless to say I told the model concerned and she did not shoot with him... Needless to say if any model asked me about him since I have told them to be very weary and suggested they take a chaperone (which to my knowledge he doesn't allow) He's a pretty well known photographer (but as we're not naming names) and has a reputation for this... but does that stop him from shooting ? No.

Girls who want to be successful still shoot with him cause of the promise of success. Alas almost every model I know as a bad story to tell, an experience they shouldn't have... There are things girls can do to safeguard themselves... but of course it's a shame they need to.

Posted 3 Aug 2013
TheStudioMK
Photographer
TheStudioMK
flashysnapper

No not a genius or a sarcastic a*** just some one who thinks this thread is too important to be taken even slightly of original OP's topic


If you cant see the relevence of my post does that make my post not relevent... I feel it's very relevent, that being that a lot of photographers believe that sexual interaction in one guise or another is part of this industry... I have met many big named so called reputable photographers who believe this to be the case... it's a state of mind for some...

But hey ho...

Posted 3 Aug 2013
paulbatterbury
Photographer
paulbatterbu..
IainT

Well obviously its a sexual assault and a serious one at that, but if you read her full account she explains why she did not go to the Police. The following paragraph is not directed at you in particular, its just a general comment. One of the commonest themes is "Well why didn't she go to the Police", "She should have gone to the Police", "Why didn't she resist", "Why did she let him do it" etc..etc...blah, blah, blah. If you have not been the victim of a sexual assault, you simply do not have the right to criticise or give retrospective advice to those who have been victims, as you cannot put yourself accurately in their position or make any valid claims regarding what you would do yourself if placed in a similar situation.



Iain I fully understand the point you make, I am reluctant to tell people what I do for a living, due to the horror stories, it almost like they pre-judge you due to what you do.
 
For the victim, it is never racking, they are scared, and they feel if they do not comply, things could be much, much worst for them, end in physical violence or something of that nature.
 
For the offender, they get off on it, it a whole power, domination and control thing, and as you suggested, with each assault and case, the offences gets worst as the offender fantasies grow more violent as they achieve.
 
Because of this psychology the victim feels they can not say anything, because they feel no one will believe them, or due to the reputation of the offender it will harm there career, and each time the offender gets away with it, they feel there is nothing that can stop them… they are untouchable or they justify it in their heads in some way.
 
I can think of a few recent cases over the past few years, where they has been enough talk between different individuals that are incriminating, but because 1 or 2 have only spoken out, nothing is done due to the situation in which offences arises, those who have committed the offence have walk away Scott free, and in some cases it is not the first or second time they been arrested, warned and had kit / computer seized.
 
There is something of a cancer growing in the industry, and because of the exploits of some, it gives wing to those who are nothing more than chancres that have no professional or creative interests   
Posted 3 Aug 2013
I had a shoot arranged with this individual by a very well-known agency, but before the shoot could take place, I discovered the history of the man you mention. When I asked the agency about it, they pleaded ignorance, and claimed to have been sending girls to him for fifteen years, even during a time when he was actually in prison! Needless to say, I didn't go on the shoot, but it seems to me that all some agencies care about is getting their fee, and don't give a damn about the dangers to which they are subjecting young models. I do wonder why the police and agencies who monitor sex offenders allow him to continue in the work - I would have expected there to be some sort of restraining order, in just the same way as as those convicted of offences against children have their movements and associations curtailed.

Posted 3 Aug 2013
Edited by AmethystViolet 3 Aug 2013
SMILESPHOTO
As far as I'm concerned, the agent who sent this poor girl to this guy in the knowledge of what he was like and without warning her is guilty of conspiracy to rape. Good for you for bringing this issue to other's attention Iain - if only one aspiring model reads it and avoids the guy then that's a great result. As usual, your post was articulately written and reasoned - you are a credit to the modelling and photographic industry.
I agree with this. If someone drove a child to a paedophile's home that would be considered heinous to say the least. So why the fuck is it any better to willingly send innocent young women to a rapist!? There still seems to be some underlying prejudice that a 'bad' girl who gets her fanny out isn't entitled to the same basic humanity and respect as a good girl is. Adult models will have provided an endless source of entertainment to the masses, sometimes putting themselves at great risk, socially, emotionally... It is a shame they don't get more protection when it is most needed, given the amountof pleasure they give others.
Posted 3 Aug 2013
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