scottish referendum

scottish referendum

257 posts
14 Sep 2014
RedChecker
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RedChecker
Expanding on the WMDs point.... it also provides a great many highly skilled jobs, from the shipyard workers that build the fleet, the technicians that fit them out and the designers and scientists who design/develop them and even all of the auxhillary services around those centres, be it supermarkets, hospitals and other ammenities for the staff. These are all jobs for highly skilled British workers keeping employment and skills here rather than sourcing it from overseas. A great deal of this expertise is (I believe) Scottish (certainly with the shipyards) and just yesterday there was a program on TV saying that if Scotland splits, the shipyards in Scotland may have no choice but to close as a great deal of their work is to build ships for the Royal Navy which would likely end up being built in England in the future as no British warship has been built outside of the union (which obviously Scotland would end up being with independence).
Posted 17 Sep 2014
JTD
Photographer
JTD
I don't think either side was prepared for a possible yes vote and both are now in deep in trouble with the reality of it all. The best thing that could happen is to put of the voting day for another few months and have a cooling off period to allow full realistic discussions about the future. Even when the vote goes ahead there should be a statutory cooling off period as you get in most personal contracts.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
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RedChecker

Expanding on the WMDs point.... it also provides a great many highly skilled jobs, from the shipyard workers that build the fleet, the technicians that fit them out and the designers and scientists who design/develop them and even all of the auxhillary services around those centres, be it supermarkets, hospitals and other ammenities for the staff. These are all jobs for highly skilled British workers keeping employment and skills here rather than sourcing it from overseas. A great deal of this expertise is (I believe) Scottish (certainly with the shipyards) and just yesterday there was a program on TV saying that if Scotland splits, the shipyards in Scotland may have no choice but to close as a great deal of their work is to build ships for the Royal Navy which would likely end up being built in England in the future as no British warship has been built outside of the union (which obviously Scotland would end up being with independence).


At the moment there is nowhere else in the UK to build the new generation of frigates without greatly increasing the costs, so the chances are they will still be built on the Clyde.

We will also need a Scottish Navy.   This Navy will be based at faslane after Trident is relocated so teh jobs will remain, in fact local jobs will increase as there are only 520 local jobs dependent on Trident at the moment.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
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Photographer
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JTD

I don't think either side was prepared for a possible yes vote and both are now in deep in trouble with the reality of it all. The best thing that could happen is to put of the voting day for another few months and have a cooling off period to allow full realistic discussions about the future. Even when the vote goes ahead there should be a statutory cooling off period as you get in most personal contracts.


Nonsens, the campaign ahs been going on for 2 years, would you be saying that if No was still running away with it?

Posted 17 Sep 2014
JTD
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JTD
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Nonsens, the campaign ahs been going on for 2 years, would you be saying that if No was still running away with it?
My comments are based on the performance of the two camps at this late stage and the lack of homework by both parties which appears to be the case not the rights or wrongs of the divorce.
Posted 17 Sep 2014
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JTD

My comments are based on the performance of the two camps at this late stage and the lack of homework by both parties which appears to be the case not the rights or wrongs of the divorce.


Your comments are based on their being a possible Yes vote (You said it).  I'm asking if you'd be saying the same thing if No were running away with it.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
tonycsm
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tonycsm
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Both the CU and EU membership could have been settled long ago with the co-operation of the UK government.


EU membership is nothing to do with the British government in this instance - that's for an iScotland to negotiate with the EU.

As for CU... if the vote is YES, why the hell should the taxpayers rUK be lender of last resort and underwrite the finacial risks of a foreign country, the people of which have chosen to walk away from the Union? Do you think we are complete mugs?

No doubt a YES vote would cause a considerable amount of problems for rUK so I can see a rapid hardening of attitude from the people of rUK  toward an independent Scotland if they are affected by any changes and I doubt very much that they would allow ANY Westminster party to negotiate a CU with iScotland!

All the main parties made it clear some time ago that there was no CU on the table...seems like only Salmond doesn't understand this !

 





Posted 17 Sep 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
tonycsm


As for CU... if the vote is YES, why the hell should the taxpayers rUK be lender of last resort and underwrite the finacial risks of a foreign country, the people of which have chosen to walk away from the Union? Do you think we are complete mugs?


+1 x 1000


tonycsm

All the main parties made it clear some time ago that there was no CU on the table...seems like only Salmond doesn't understand this !


I think he understands perfectly well, he's just keeping quiet as he knows it'll go against his campaign for presidency of an independent Scotland if the Scots were to learn the truth (despite the fact that other politicians, business leaders & the press are already telling them but it seems to fall of deaf ears).
Posted 17 Sep 2014
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Photographer
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tonycsm

EU membership is nothing to do with the British government in this instance - that's for an iScotland to negotiate with the EU.

As for CU... if the vote is YES, why the hell should the taxpayers rUK be lender of last resort and underwrite the finacial risks of a foreign country, the people of which have chosen to walk away from the Union? Do you think we are complete mugs?

No doubt a YES vote would cause a considerable amount of problems for rUK so I can see a rapid hardening of attitude from the people of rUK  toward an independent Scotland if they are affected by any changes and I doubt very much that they would allow ANY Westminster party to negotiate a CU with iScotland!

All the main parties made it clear some time ago that there was no CU on the table...seems like only Salmond doesn't understand this !

 







The question of EU membership could have been settled by the UK government asking the EU for a definitive answer.  The fact that they refused to do so maybe tells you that they guessed at what the answer might be as a definite no from the EU would have holed the Yes campaign below the waterline before it had even got out of dock.

As for the CU, a YES win changes everything.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
RedChecker
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The question of EU membership could have been settled by the UK government asking the EU for a definitive answer.


You are assuming the EU will give one.

It has been made perfectly clear what the membership process is and it has also been made clear that when it comes to other EU states voting on allowing Scotland access they also have the right to veto Scotland's entry.  It has been long assumed the Spanish will amost certainly veto it but you won't know until Scotland decides to go through the process and nobody in their right mind will give a 'definitive' answer outside of the process.
Posted 17 Sep 2014
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RedChecker

You are assuming the EU will give one.

It has been made perfectly clear what the membership process is and it has also been made clear that when it comes to other EU states voting on allowing Scotland access they also have the right to veto Scotland's entry.  It has been long assumed the Spanish will amost certainly veto it but you won't know until Scotland decides to go through the process and nobody in their right mind will give a 'definitive' answer outside of the process.


The EU have said they will give an answer but can only give it to the member state ie the UK.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
tonycsm
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tonycsm
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The question of EU membership could have been settled by the UK government asking the EU for a definitive answer.  The fact that they refused to do so maybe tells you that they guessed at what the answer might be as a definite no from the EU would have holed the Yes campaign below the waterline before it had even got out of dock.

As for the CU, a YES win changes everything.



And that is why I think you'd find that not only the political parties/government of the day will be against CU but they will have the people behind them too, irrespective of their political affiliation! 

The people of rUK are not as stupid as Salmond and the YES voters seem to think...they won't be bullied or held to ransom by a politician who's sole intention was to break apart the Union, irrespective to the costs for both sides!

If you want independence then go for it but don't expect the people of rUK prop up your economic policies until such times that you can leave the currency union and dump rUK like a hot potato once again!

Posted 17 Sep 2014
JTD
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JTD
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Your comments are based on their being a possible Yes vote (You said it).  I'm asking if you'd be saying the same thing if No were running away with it.
I disagree. My comments are based on the performance of both parties which show a distinct lack of preparation for the outcome if the yes vote is carried. A no vote would simply be continuation of the status quo so there is not a lot of preparation required if the voting goes that way. Who is ahead in the polls is irrelevant to my comments.
Posted 17 Sep 2014
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Photographer
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tonycsm

And that is why I think you'd find that not only the political parties/government of the day will be against CU but they will have the people behind them too, irrespective of their political affiliation! 

The people of rUK are not as stupid as Salmond and the YES voters seem to think...they won't be bullied or held to ransom by a politician who's sole intention was to break apart the Union, irrespective to the costs for both sides!

If you want independence then go for it but don't expect the people of rUK prop up your economic policies until such times that you can leave the currency union and dump rUK like a hot potato once again!



Personally speaking I don't care if we get a CU or not and the WM parties do seem to have painted themselves into a corner over it, a corner they can leave if we vote No. But don't be surprised that not long after a Yes vote they announce a "monetary agreement" or some such thing, and with it there will be a list of "concessions" they've won.

I actually don't care if we use bananas, you don't need to be an amateur economist to know a currency is only as strong as the economy that supports it and I have no fears about Scotland's economy in the long term.  So what we call the stuff in our pockets is irrelevant IMHO as long as we are able to make the decisons that affect Scotland in Scotland.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
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JTD

I disagree. My comments are based on the performance of both parties which show a distinct lack of preparation for the outcome if the yes vote is carried. A no vote would simply be continuation of the status quo so there is not a lot of preparation required if the voting goes that way. Who is ahead in the polls is irrelevant to my comments.


I think the Yes side is prepared, people like Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have spent their entire life waiting on this.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
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