Scottish referendum.

Scottish referendum.

143 posts
15 Feb 2014
click_gotcha
Photographer
click_gotcha
sirspread

Does it really matter because at the end of the day the scots are not going to vote for independence


I'd be a fool to predict what the outcome will be but it will be close, it could go either way.      The no campaign seems to have suddenly woken up to this idea and that's why we are seeing all this commotion.    There is a hard core of Yes voters, probably about 30%.  There is also a hardcore of no voters, but it's a lot less and  there are also a lot of people who seem to be nominally no in that they're quite happy to keep the status quo  and will pay lip service to it.  But a lot of them will simply not bother voting.  Yes voters seem to be the most vocal and passionate in their support for Yes and almost all of them will vote.    There are however a lot of undecideds and any shift seems to be in the Yes direction. 

With 7 months to go, it's all to play for.

Posted 17 Feb 2014
cziiki
Photographer
cziiki
Stibnite
I don't get the point you are making, to retain use of the pound you would need to have a currency union with joint policy making on the economy yet what is proposed is independence to raise taxes and spend as Scotland please's you can't have it both ways.
No, a currency union is one mechanism for Scotland to use the pound. I believe someone else has posted excerpts from one of the recent articles about the aspects of currency sharing which, in the context of two similar economies with a very large amount of trade with each other (10 years ago Scotland exported over £35BN to England and there is a large reverse trade) In these circumstances the economies are fairly in tune and affected by similar internal and external forces - even if not in the EU Scotland would like Norway or Switzerland be complying with most directives simply to permit exports to EU countries. And a senior judge recently raised very large doubts as to whether Scotland's 5.5M EU citizens could legally be disenfranchised by the Council of Ministers. In other words there are things to be discussed but no huge barriers to Independence for these reasons. I am not in favour of independence myself, I've lived in London on and off for 40 years, but I'm getting more and more annoyed by these tactics of disinformation which are clearly attempting to influence rather than inform the vote. Scotland IS a nation. The Act of Union is a treaty where separate Nations (the United Kingdoms) agreed to combine some things but not all. There is already a separate Scottish legal system (always has been), separate Established Church, separate NHS, separate education system. Independence would not be creating a nation - Scotland always has been a nation. It would be revoking the unification of Great Britain brought about under Stuart (Scottish) kings when the English invited them to take over the English crown. I disagree with it but I very much dislike the disinformation about these things mainly in the minds of English press and people.
Posted 17 Feb 2014
sirspread
Photographer
sirspread
jivago

I will differ. Artcle 16 of The Act of Union established a common currency between the two Countries. Who owns that asset after the Union is dissolved? - Who knows? Is there a prececdent? In dispute it could  be considered by the International Court of Justice? - A surreal proposition! Common sense would have to prevail of course. Some share of the assets and the liabilities I anticipate. A Currency Union in return for a share of the liabilties. Anyone with a brain can see the 'game of poker' at large here.

As a Rump UK taxpayer, would you be happy to shoulder Scotland's share of the current national debt? - Or would you prefer a currency Union? - One that did not impose tariffs on your businesses when they trade with Scotland! (One that may well be some 'back-door' to European free markets when the Tories isolote you from Europe?).




bookies are not stupid and odds of 7/2 suggest that its very unlikely
Posted 17 Feb 2014
click_gotcha
Photographer
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sirspread

bookies are not stupid and odds of 7/2 suggest that its very unlikely


Bookies have been stupid before in relation to Scottish politics. 

The last holyrood election:-



As we now know, the SNP won by a ;landslide.


Posted 17 Feb 2014
jivago
Photographer
jivago
Interesting conjecture - Should Scotland secede from the UK Union, but either remain within or accede to the European Union and then the Rump UK are dragged out of the European Union by the barbarians in UKIP & the Conservative Party - Would we then see a flight of business from England to Scotland, in order to enjoy European free trade (and the future EU-USA free trade zone)?

Interesting! -
Posted 17 Feb 2014
Edited by jivago 17 Feb 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
jivago

I will differ. Artcle 16 of The Act of Union established a common currency between the two Countries. Who owns that asset after the Union is dissolved? - Who knows? Is there a prececdent? In dispute it could  be considered by the International Court of Justice? - A surreal proposition! Common sense would have to prevail of course. Some share of the assets and the liabilities I anticipate. A Currency Union in return for a share of the liabilties. Anyone with a brain can see the 'game of poker' at large here.

As a Rump UK taxpayer, would you be happy to shoulder Scotland's share of the current national debt? - Or would you prefer a currency Union? - One that did not impose tariffs on your businesses when they trade with Scotland! (One that may well be some 'back-door' to European free markets when the Tories isolote you from Europe?).




This is an interesting read...

http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/the-snps-currency-nightmare/

If anyone is in doubt about currency union, then I reccommend they read it and then come back and state why you think it's wrong!

Posted 18 Feb 2014
cziiki
Photographer
cziiki
tonycsm
This is an interesting read... http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/the-snps-currency-nightmare/ If anyone is in doubt about currency union, then I reccommend they read it and then come back and state why you think it's wrong!
What's wrong is that Tomkins is not in the slightest impartial - like the Daily Mail's David Rose, he is a propogandist. http://albamatters.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/adam-tomkins-school-of-impartiality.html
Posted 18 Feb 2014
sirspread
Photographer
sirspread
click_gotcha

Bookies have been stupid before in relation to Scottish politics. 

The last holyrood election:-



As we now know, the SNP won by a ;landslide.




fill your boots then
not sure if you will get paid out in pounds if you win though
Posted 18 Feb 2014
cziiki
Photographer
cziiki
jivago
Interesting conjecture - Should Scotland secede from the UK Union, but either remain within or accede to the European Union and then the Rump UK are dragged out of the European Union by the barbarians in UKIP & the Conservative Party - Would we then see a flight of business from England to Scotland, in order to enjoy European free trade (and the future EU-USA free trade zone)? Interesting! -
+1 yes the Scotland independence poll should be AFTER the Little Englanders poll so Scots know what they are separating from!
Posted 18 Feb 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
cziiki

What's wrong is that Tomkins is not in the slightest impartial - like the Daily Mail's David Rose, he is a propogandist. http://albamatters.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/adam-tomkins-school-of-impartiality.html


So are saying that the SNP is impartial?

As soon as an opposing view is put forward, the SNP immediately cries foul! People have a right to know the truth but that is something in short supply on the SNP's side.

Sorry, but as a citizen/taxpayer of the rUK, I don't want my taxes used to prop up a self indulgent foreign country and I don't want my government ceding any powers to a foreign country, which is what Scotland would be if it left the Union.  

Posted 18 Feb 2014
jivago
Photographer
jivago
tonycsm

 I don't want my taxes used to prop up a self indulgent foreign country and I don't want my government ceding any powers to a foreign country, which is what Scotland would be if it left the Union.  



Tony, thanks for (inadvertently) articulating the real arguments for independence:- Yes we don't want to cede powers to a foreign country, but it feels that we do so, every time the Tories get in - Poll tax/Bedroom tax anyone?

.....And It depends on your own world view as to what is 'self indulgent' - Trident anyone?

..Its not the economy stupid - Its more fundamental than that - Its democracy.

Oichde bha an drasda
Posted 18 Feb 2014
cziiki
Photographer
cziiki
tonycsm
So are saying that the SNP is impartial?
Either you are responding to a different post, or you are reading your screen through the bottom of a whisky glass! I'm afraid I didn't mention the SNP, at all, and though I have no connection with them I suspect being a political party they are not impartial. They have nothing to do with my post about the impartiality of certain "commentators" including the one you reference
Posted 18 Feb 2014
Edited by cziiki 17 Feb 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
jivago

Tony, thanks for (inadvertently) articulating the real arguments for independence:- Yes we don't want to cede powers to a foreign country, but it feels that we do so, every time the Tories get in - Poll tax/Bedroom tax anyone?

.....


You're very welcome Andy.wink

It's not just the Scots who've had to live under the Tories (or Labour)... so you haven't got the monopoly of victimisation.

Anyway, just wait until you go independent and the true costs of indendence and tax rises hit the people of Scotland....if past reactions to tax rises are anything to go by, it will be interesting to watch from a neutral perspective.sad


Posted 18 Feb 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
jivago

Tony, thanks for (inadvertently) articulating the real arguments for independence:- Yes we don't want to cede powers to a foreign country, but it feels that we do so, every time the Tories get in - Poll tax/Bedroom tax anyone?

.....


You're very welcome Andy.wink

It's not just the Scots who've had to live under the Tories (or Labour)... so you haven't got the monopoly of victimisation.

Anyway, just wait until you go independent and the true costs of indendence and tax rises hit the people of Scotland....if past reactions to tax rises are anything to go by, it will be interesting to watch from a neutral perspective.sad


Posted 18 Feb 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
cziiki

Either you are responding to a different post, or you are reading your screen through the bottom of a whisky glass! I'm afraid I didn't mention the SNP, at all, and though I have no connection with them I suspect being a political party they are not impartial. They have nothing to do with my post about the impartiality of certain "commentators" including the one you reference


Of course he's not impartial...he's a Union supporter, effectively putting forward views in support of the No campaigners to counter the disinformation put forward by the SNP.

Posted 18 Feb 2014
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