Controversial Subject

Controversial Subject

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134 posts
27 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
I think the Police are caught between a rock and a hard place. I'm sure they do take most complaints seriously, but if there is no evidence, there is no evidence and no amount of goodwill or sympathy for the victim will change that, but unless reports are made then there is no chance at all of a conviction.

As previously mention, not all Police are good and efficient, but we tend to hear more about those cases which are not dealt with satisfactorily, rather than the majority of the times where the Police do a good job.

Its like bad photographers, they stand out and we hear about them, but we dont here about the majority who just go about their business or hobby in the proper manner.

Posted 29 July 2013
HoneyB
Model
HoneyB
I had an issue with this person, no where near as bad as Iain described as I wasnt actually touched, but I was sent to him for a shoot by an agency, who I found out after the shoot, knew this companys reputation, when I was pretty much a "newbie" & scared of being assertive. Even worse was the fact the agency knew I had previously been sexually assaulted on a shoot with a different photographer just 2 months before. Im actually pretty sure the reason nothing more happened than what did, is because I actually mentioned to the person this thread refers to that I had been at the police station the day before, to through my statement with regards the previous assault. Im happy to disclose to Iain what happened on my shoot but im pretty sure nothing would have been done about it because whilst it was uncomfortable, it was relatively minor.

I will say though that I was made to do my model release/ID at the beginning of the shoot & it was incited to me that if I didn't do work he liked I wouldn't be paid (& I had no money for petrol to drive all that way back to London). So this backs up Iain's previous post, though this may have changed in the last 7 or 8 years.

Honey x

Posted 29 July 2013
Edited by HoneyB 29 July 2013
Plymjack
Photographer
Plymjack
Respect to you HoneyB for sharing this.

No model should have to endure any of the events described in this thread. Nor can we just point to the police and tell them it is their problem to deal with. We all have a moral duty to support models who find themselves in this situation, leaving negative feedback takes some courage if it is because of such treatment. We should support them in any way we can.

IainT post should used to highlight these issues and help protect all models.

Posted 29 July 2013
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
If I was a model I'd never sign the release at the start of the shoot.

Posted 29 July 2013
mph
Photographer
mph
[qt][author]fizzy[/author]

However, on the back of this, I've decided to leave negative feedback for a photographer who is a notorious level pusher. I worked with him when I was brand new and was too cowed by his reputation to speak up for all these years. I know there will be repercussions because he's quite unstable when he doesn't get his own way, but I won't let other women be abused by him if my speaking up might prevent it. I just hope the moderators don't remove my feedback when he,inevitably, complains.[/qt]

Excellent - and as you can't add the details to the negative reference it is unlikely to be removed as he cannot argue with a simple "not recommended".

If only more had the courage to do this - especially well respected models whose references, rightly or wrongly, seem so much more worthy of note.

Posted 29 July 2013
HoneyB
Model
HoneyB
HowardJ
If I was a model I'd never sign the release at the start of the shoot.
As a relatively new model you dont realise this, I didnt. Ive also worked on a number of professional published shoots since where the ID & release is done at the start just because its easier, including when Galaxy Publications had their in house studio & photographer. However, being a very experienced model now, I wouldn't sign a release (but happy to show ID) at the start of a shoot unless I trust the photographer/company 100%.
Posted 29 July 2013
AegeanSoft
Photographer
AegeanSoft
I check that my models have proof of age at the start of the shoot. No proof of age and without a photo being taken they go home at their own expense as this is made plain during our negotiations prior to the shoot.

I only pay the model once I have a signed model release at the end of the shoot and both they and I are satisfied that they have provided the pre-agreed content.

As mine are professional shoots I expect professionalism from the model just as they must expect it from me.

I am disgusted by the, purported, actions of this predator and, if they are true he deserves another period of incarceration at Her Majesty's pleasure.

Any model abused by him should report it to the Halifax police, regardless of how long ago it was.

Posted 29 July 2013
Edited by AegeanSoft 29 July 2013
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
AegeanSoft
Any model abused by him should report it to the Halifax police, regardless of how long ago it was.
Agreed. And just to clarify a point or a concern, it is true that no prosecution may go ahead due to insufficient evidence, BUT the report will remain on the police computer for a LONG time. Ok, it wont be on PNC unless a criminal conviction is brought about, but will be on their local (force) PC and if any other complainants come forward it will flag up that there have been previous reports. The older 'closed' reports can quite easily be reopened and dealt with alongside newer reports. To say the police 'wont do anything' or 'wont take it seriously' is not true and even if nothing is done at that time, it could quite easily be used in the future to bring a prosecution. The more reports, the bigger the picture, the easier a prosecution. One piece of a jigsaw may not mean much, but several pieces can make a picture. The police are still in the process of collaborating all the information from each and every force ever since the Soham murders of Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells brought out failings in having different systems in each force.
Posted 29 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
This is an exerpt from an email I receieved from a model, if you wish to read her full account of the incident, please go to my blog.

The third shoot was different. First he touched himself through his pants while filming. I ignored it because he was filming and mentioning it would have meant starting an exceptionally trying scene over again. All throughout he was visibly aroused, he unzipped his pants at one point, I told him to zip them up. He said he would keep on booking me if I did ‘boy girl’ with him. I said no. He became even nastier and when doing another scene, asked me to close my eyes, which I did. He then ejaculated on my breasts without permission and I was frozen with shock. I was locked in there with him. I find it difficult to explain why I carried on but I felt he would hurt me physically AND knew he paid by cheque and would cancel it (travel was not included and I could not afford the trip otherwise).

I went into the bathroom to wash up. He told me to hurry up and get changed as if nothing had happened. I changed. With one more scene to go, and nearly crying, I did the last scene which involved me being on all fours masturbating. Nearly as the scene ended I felt him behind me, fell to the floor and turned over, he was exposing himself, mastubating and clearing intending to rape me. I brought up my leg towards his crotch and made to kick with my leg which had a heel on it. He put his semi erect penis away and he cut(he goes simply MAD if he has to cut) and I had to shoot the whole scene over. I was red raw. I took the cheque and agreed to work with him again just to get out.

Like the model you mentioned, it was only on the train that I started to shake and went into the toilets and vomited and cried. I have been informed by portfolio hosting sites that by naming the assailant publicly I am liable to ***** suing me. I have continued to use various forums etc. to warn models and written to models warning them not to shoot with *****.I have mostly had my emails ignored and the girls still work with him. I guess the pull of the money is too great for them.

I honestly would die if I saw the man again, recounting this in such detail has wiped me out even though this was maybe 8 years ago now, the shame is still there.

I feel so dirty and I do feel responsible for what has happened to others, but I am just too scared, knowing what cross examination is like, that I would fall to pieces. I know I would. But thank you for getting this out there. It needs to be talked about whatever the ‘risks’.


Posted 30 July 2013
JohnB
Photographer
JohnB
I am ashamed at what that model had to go through at the hands of another so called photographer

Posted 30 July 2013
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Yep he is a sick puppy and most models, photographers and agents know it. We warn people about his behaviour if they decide to go to Halifax or suggest that if they do want to work with that company that they do so via their female photographer in Essex in order to totally avoid any "issues" with the male photographer.

Posted 30 July 2013
Amber6
Model
Amber6
Unfortunately, people like this often only prey on the young and who they consider 'weak'. Just like in the animal kingdom. I've worked with someone who another model found abusive (I did not know this at time!), and he was absolutely good as gold with me.

I also understand the fear of 'having to go along with it' as I was essentially in a locked warehouse with the photographer who was very inappropriate with me. I was forced to play it cool (even though I was terrified) until we left the building. Running isnt always an option. I'm pleased to say that individual no longer practices photography(it might be hard from jail, where I believe him to be).

I have worked with the company in question, but not for the individual this thread refers to. When I worked with them, I was betwixt and between as to whether it was all hearsay. Also, I knew and trusted the person I worked with (who is truly lovely).


Posted 30 July 2013
Edited by Amber6 30 July 2013
fizzy
Model
fizzy
It's truly awful what this individual has done to numerous women. It's also truly awful that they're being made to feel responsible for the treatment of others at his hands. The onus shouldn't be on his poor victims to prevent it happening again, it should be on him not being a vile, predatory piece of shit.

In my opinion, the law shouldn't allow sex offenders to work alone with adults either particularly in an easily abused position as an adult shooter. Just because someone molested children when they were convicted does not mean that they will only target children and that others are not at risk.

Posted 30 July 2013
Honesty
Model
Honesty
fizzy
It's truly awful what this individual has done to numerous women. It's also truly awful that they're being made to feel responsible for the treatment of others at his hands. The onus shouldn't be on his poor victims to prevent it happening again, it should be on him not being a vile, predatory piece of shit. In my opinion, the law shouldn't allow sex offenders to work alone with adults either particularly in an easily abused position as an adult shooter. Just because someone molested children when they were convicted does not mean that they will only target children and that others are not at risk.
True, but it is easy to get carried away when there are so many of them who could have reported it. Although understandably the type of victim chosen doen make it even more difficult for them. Personally I'm exponentially more angry at the agents and other models who continue to work. I mean what's £400/500 every so often in the grand scheme of things it's nothing. He's basically paying approximate b/g rates for solo which is probably how he justifies his bbehaviour to himself. But to a model, really? You need the money that much? I'd put myself about escorting before I worked with a piece of shit like that.
Posted 31 July 2013
Edited by Honesty 31 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Amber6
I also understand the fear of 'having to go along with it' as I was essentially in a locked warehouse with the photographer who was very inappropriate with me. I was forced to play it cool (even though I was terrified) until we left the building. Running isnt always an option. I'm pleased to say that individual no longer practices photography(it might be hard from jail, where I believe him to be).
I think this is what people who have not actually been in the situation fail to understand. Its very easy to tell people what they *should* have done in any particular situation, when you are offering the advice from a position of safety and security. You simply cannot question a particular individuals action in a given situation of danger, if you have not been in that situation yourself.
Posted 31 July 2013
Edited by IainT 31 July 2013
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