scottish referendum

scottish referendum

257 posts
14 Sep 2014
mph
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mph
click_gotcha
Well, actually Alex Salmond used to be a professional economist.
Well actually he used to be a professional horse racing tipster but results of 130 races on which he gave tips over a randomly selected period of three years show a punter who followed him would have lost almost 22 per cent of his stakes. And in any case as economists frequently disagree, being an economist is not necessarily helpful!
Posted 16 Sep 2014
Edited by mph 16 Sep 2014
BodyBragging

Apologies Chrissie it should have said YES and not NO. It wasn't meant to indicate that anyone is stupid and doesn't suggest that you'll have to go cap in hand to Brussels if things go wrong. Oh and Brussels will be the place you will HAVE to go if things do go wrong. However, once again on the news tonight Mr Salmond was asked about his monetary policies. He again didn't answer the question but asked why people are trying to stand in front of a great party atmosphere. Not one to be a party-pooper, but after the hangover wears off, shouldn't a country have some idea what they are going to do fiscally and be able to openly discuss it? I'd say that hanging just about all credibility on ever decreasing oil reserves is somewhat short sighted to say the least.



Oh right sorry - Just with rest of your post I kind of thought thats what you were implying.

I don't really blame you for thinking the way you are - afterall its EXACTLY what the newspapers have splattered on their front pages.

Alex has answered quite a lot of questions - unfortunately though some of those answers HAVE been edited out of news reports (BBC for example). Please please please watch some of the live debates they are quite informative. Don't just watch clips from the debates - watch them from the start to the end.

On that note I'm out - because there really is no point at all in trying to change peoples opinion. 


Posted 16 Sep 2014
Jackass
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Jackass
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We discussed the impending Scottish vote and what could be - should the Scots decide to move away from the UK. None of us recalled a conversation which categorically set out the Independence stance on money. i.e which currency they will use. It's looking more likely that they will continue to use Sterling. That makes for an interesting perspective. An independent country who doesn't control it's own fiscal state! The Scots would then have all their financial regulations - governed by the Bank of England - with no say. Because of this, it's more than likely that Moodys would instantly reduce the credit rating of the country, meaning it would cost more to borrow money. So, looking at the news over the last week and taking the above in to consideration, voting "NO" could probably end up looking like this......... Major banks and international companies pulling head offices to England, therefore reducing jobs. No direct currency regulations - meaning that money will cost more to borrow (so increase in interest rates). Increase in interest rate means far less to spend on infrastructure and house market crashing. Cost of living leaping (aka Republic of Ireland). Even everyday items such as food going up massively. No one in the SNP having experience of economical strategies. I'll give it 10 years before the country becomes bankrupt and people having 50% personal tax and life long mortgages. Glad I'm not voting but hey..........at least we English might just get the correct quota of tax spent within country.
So if the independent house of cards collapses, the Scots will still be able to blame the English! A plan with no drawbacks then......
Posted 16 Sep 2014
Jackass

So if the independent house of cards collapses, the Scots will still be able to blame the English! A plan with no drawbacks then......


You are confusing things a bit - nobody blames the English. Its not your fault or little Joe's down the roads fault.
The UK isn't just England (I know its hard to remember that sometimes though). Kind of dissapointing to hear the "Scot's vs English" type of stuff.
I don't blame you though, thats what the press are feeding you.



Posted 16 Sep 2014
mph
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mph
Chrissie_Red
You are confusing things a bit - nobody blames the English. Its not your fault or little Joe's down the roads fault. The UK isn't just England (I know its hard to remember that sometimes though). Kind of dissapointing to hear the "Scot's vs English" type of stuff. I don't blame you though, thats what the press are feeding you.
Well if it all goes wrong I rather doubt you will hear Mr Salmond saying he made a mistake. It will undoubtedly be blamed on the terms of the deal offered and accepted after a "yes" vote if that is the result. I have to say I would be unhappy voting "yes" when you are totally in the dark about hugely important matters re currency, national debt share etc etc.
Posted 16 Sep 2014
SandyCamel
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SandyCamel
I am sorry if I have missed the point of this thread but if I haven't then I think that Scotland will vote for independence and the majority vote will be 70 % with 30 % saying no.



Posted 16 Sep 2014
tonycsm
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tonycsm
SandyCamel

I am sorry if I have missed the point of this thread but if I haven't then I think that Scotland will vote for independence and the majority vote will be 70 % with 30 % saying no.



Let's hope it is a large majority because if the vote is tight, it's going to leave a very split nation no matter which way the vote goes!
Posted 17 Sep 2014
RedChecker
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RedChecker
tonycsm

Let's hope it is a large majority because if the vote is tight, it's going to leave a very split nation no matter which way the vote goes!


Looking at the cover of the Daily Mail you can see it will indeed turn pretty ugly which ever way it goes.  It wouldn't surprise me if it turns into another Northern Ireland of the '70s:

Posted 17 Sep 2014
RedChecker

Looking at the cover of the Daily Mail you can see it will indeed turn pretty ugly which ever way it goes.  It wouldn't surprise me if it turns into another Northern Ireland of the '70s:



Do you guys down south genuinely trust the daily mail?

If you do then Scotlandland is a whole lot different to some of our neighbours. Ofcourse don't take somebody who actually lives in Scotlands word for it - Daily mail will keep you up to date with all the goings on. I seen a yes sign broken, wiith "no thanks"  stickers on it - doesn't mean I think people are going to start physically fighting and chucking haggis at each other it just means some little idiot thought it would be funny to vandalise a sign. I've seen more violence at football matches than any of the gatherings of voters (who often do stand side by side campaigning).

Like I said though - daily mail said it so it must be right. If anything its just stirring up anger in people. 








Posted 17 Sep 2014
Edited by Chrissie_Red 17 Sep 2014
tonycsm
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tonycsm
Chrissie_Red

Do you guys down south genuinely trust the daily mail?

If you do then Scotlandland is a whole lot different to some of our neighbours. Ofcourse don't take somebody who actually lives in Scotlands word for it - Daily mail will keep you up to date with all the goings on. I seen a yes sign broken, wiith "no thanks"  stickers on it - doesn't mean I think people are going to start physically fighting and chucking haggis at each other it just means some little idiot thought it would be funny to vandalise a sign. I've seen more violence at football matches than any of the gatherings of voters (who often do stand side by side campaigning).

Like I said though - daily mail said it so it must be right. If anything its just stirring up anger in people. 




Judging by all the anti-Westminster propaganda and hatred being pumped out by many of the YES campaigners, it's understandable that we 'down here' get the wrong  impression!
They've turned it into an emotive referendum which suits the SNP as they have failed miserably and dare I say it deliberately, to produce verifiable costings of just how much their White Paper promises and independence will ultimately cost the Scottish taxpayer once the dust has settled!  
Posted 17 Sep 2014
IainT
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IainT
tonycsm
Judging by all the anti-Westminster propaganda and hatred being pumped out by many of the YES campaigners, it's understandable that we 'down here' get the wrong  impression! They've turned it into an emotive referendum which suits the SNP as they have failed miserably and dare I say it deliberately, to produce verifiable costings of just how much their White Paper promises and independence will ultimately cost the Scottish taxpayer once the dust has settled!  
I am a Scot "down here" and I'm a Scot who would naturally vote no...if I was able to vote, which I am not...however the no campaign has been so condescending, peddled out much crap, as have the media (Daily Mail typical) that do you know what, if I had a vote I would vote yes just to put my middle finger up at them and many Scots feel the same. Thats the point, I believe, well I know the majority of Scots do not want to be independant from the UK, even Salmond did not want independance...he favoured a third option of a more powerful Scottish government, but still part of the UK, but Cameron would not sign off on it. The No campaign have done more to galvanise the Yes vote than the Yes people could ever do and if it is a Yes vote then Westminister and the English media will have done more to bring it about than anyone. Westminster and the media, particularly the Daily Mail WILL be responsible for breaking up the UK
Posted 17 Sep 2014
RedChecker
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RedChecker
IainT

even Salmond did not want independance...he favoured a third option of a more powerful Scottish government, but still part of the UK, but Cameron would not sign off on it.


Thank God Cameron wouldn't.  Scotland already gets more per head spent on it and arguably more power/control than anyone else, so what makes it so special it should get even more money/power?   I'd have been seriously pissed off if they were given Devomax at my (and everyone else in the rest of the UK's expense) and certainly if I were a Welshman I'd feel utterly cheated by such a gesture (and thus causing more trouble ahead).

It also irks me that they (Scotish people as a whole) feel that they're the only ones suffering with so-called austerity (I've heard a lot on TV with Scots saying they feel persecuted by Westminster as a result).  Many people across the whole of the UK are suffering in one way or another but are just getting on with it as best they can, and anyone with any intelligence would understand there's little this (or any other) government can do when finances are up the spout like it is.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
profilepictures
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profilepictures
I'm sat between Edinburgh and Glasgow now, and have followed the debates closely for a while, my parents live near john O groats and I'm a fan of Scotland in a big way. My feeling is that, if not immediately, then in time, Scotland will be stronger and more prosperous than now - it has the resources, the space, intelligence and attitude to be better than as a sub branch of uk. A yes would lead to elections which would ensure the appointed leaders were those the scots trust and I don't see all the scaremongering being sustained once we have a new trading nation attached to England. My feeling is the scots would show us another, more European and modern way - we need that.

In any case, let's hope a form of agreeable unity continues whichever way the vote goes and I wish Scotland the very best for its future.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
IainT
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IainT
RedChecker
Thank God Cameron wouldn't.  Scotland already gets more per head spent on it and arguably more power/control than anyone else, so what makes it so special it should get even more money/power?   I'd have been seriously pissed off if they were given Devomax at my (and everyone else in the rest of the UK's expense) and certainly if I were a Welshman I'd feel utterly cheated by such a gesture (and thus causing more trouble ahead). It also irks me that they (Scotish people as a whole) feel that they're the only ones suffering with so-called austerity (I've heard a lot on TV with Scots saying they feel persecuted by Westminster as a result).  Many people across the whole of the UK are suffering in one way or another but are just getting on with it as best they can, and anyone with any intelligence would understand there's little this (or any other) government can do when finances are up the spout like it is.
The above is just typical rhetoric which has been implanted in your brain by the media and Westminster, but just because they have had the resources to plant all the nonsense as fact in the brains of the gullable, it doesn't make it true. Don't you think if Scotland was a drain on resources and a pain in the ass to the UK government they would simply be waving bye-bye with a sigh of relief? The reason all the main parties are shitting themselves now is because they realise they have cocked up, taken a no vote for granted and are now in serious danger of losing Scotland. All the big guns have been glad handing in Scotland and virtually bending over and saying do anything you want, have anything you want, do me up the ass if you want, but please stay. Why? because the UK would suffer hugely financially if Scotland left...the main parties know this and have always known it but rather than be truthfull and sensible, they chose to be lying and condescending. Scotland will be fine, probably better off as an Independant country, but the rest of the UK will not. The bottom line is that all this could have been avoided, its been clear from the start that the vast majority in Scotland do not wish to leave the UK, but the No campaign is in serious danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of an easy victory. All the No campaign really had to do was keep quiet and say "let the people decide" and they would have won for sure, instead they did everything they could to drive voters to the Yes camp. If I thought that Politicians and the media were actually smart enough to do it, I would almost say its reverse psychology...maybe Westminster really do want rid of Scotland.
Posted 17 Sep 2014
click_gotcha
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click_gotcha
RedChecker

Looking at the cover of the Daily Mail you can see it will indeed turn pretty ugly which ever way it goes.  It wouldn't surprise me if it turns into another Northern Ireland of the '70s:



Not like the Daily Mail to stir things, eh?

On the whole this campaign has been an example of democracy in action.  Thousands of people have become engaged in politics because of it.  One thing is for sure, no matter the result Scotland will never be the same again.

BTW Milliband getting jostled in Edinburgh was because of a media frenzy, nothing else, to portray it as an attack on democracy as the Daily Mail has is just plain disgraceful.

Posted 17 Sep 2014
Edited by click_gotcha 17 Sep 2014
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