Utterly Appalled

Utterly Appalled

76 posts
5 March 2014
photostore
Photographer
photostore
So your semi professional ? so that usually means around these parts  i get paid on occasion for some modelling and dont pay any tax, argue if you like but thats the reality of most models on this and other internet sites, so whatever you get probably goes straight in the hipper, £15.00 or whatever rate you charge above this seems like good money to most on here who have legit full time jobs. and pay tax / insurance.

If you dont like, or get paid enough by "this industry" then do something which satifies your self worth ? 

sounds like your P***** off as you are getting undercut, and losing out on work, those cheaper models may not be the best, then again they may well be much better ? but one things for sure they will probably improve while you are not modelling !

same applies to long term photographers decrying new kids on the block, get over it, improve, compete  or look for another career !
Posted 6 March 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
andrew_gibbins
It may come as a shock to you, but models are actually a "commodity" if you will. They sell a service which in turn is needed by someone. Thats buy and sell, which makes it a commodity. Much like a mechanic sells his services to people to fix their cars. Its a commodity to sell your services, no matter how you put it. And you sell your services for the price that it goes for, of course, otherwise it cannot be sold.
Definition of 'Commodity' 1. A basic good used in commerce that is interchangeable with other commodities of the same type. Commodities are most often used as inputs in the production of other goods or services. The quality of a given commodity may differ slightly, but it is essentially uniform across producers. When they are traded on an exchange, commodities must also meet specified minimum standards, also known as a basis grade.
Posted 6 March 2014
jivago
Photographer
jivago
Klouise1992

.... what is going on with the industry... why do I keep seeing people offering £15 or less for full frontal nude!! And what models are accepting this!! This is not on.... no way should models being getting fully nude for that sort of money.  


 - Why?
Posted 7 March 2014
dannyrich
Photographer
dannyrich
Always find it strange that models charge more for nude than they do for fashion.

With fashion they have clothes and shoes to buy.

In terms of paying for models, you surely should be paying for the modelling ability not the situation. I personally have looked to shoot art nude models in a fashion style because that way I know the posing will have an elegance that I like.
Posted 7 March 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
dannyrich
Always find it strange that models charge more for nude than they do for fashion. With fashion they have clothes and shoes to buy. In terms of paying for models, you surely should be paying for the modelling ability not the situation. I personally have looked to shoot art nude models in a fashion style because that way I know the posing will have an elegance that I like.
Perhaps you should actually read the thread then. Several people have clearly explained why nude modelling commands a premium over clothed. Most photographers who pay do so because the model fits the look they want (and they think the model will turn up). If they're not interested in paying then the photographer may take what they can get.
Posted 7 March 2014
dannyrich
Photographer
dannyrich
stolenfaces

 One reason that many people are not prepared to pay for clothed work, is that any decent photographer with a circle of friends doesn't need to use the internet to find pretty women who are prepared to model for fun..


Doesnt mean they can model well though... 
Posted 7 March 2014
Edited by dannyrich 7 March 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
dannyrich
Doesnt mean they can model well though... 
Being on here doesn't mean they can model well... generally meeting people in person is a much better way of establishing the likelihood of an inexperienced model being worth shooting. And working with people who can't model well can give you more photographic experience than having standard poses served up to you on a plate.
Posted 7 March 2014
dannyrich
Always find it strange that models charge more for nude than they do for fashion. With fashion they have clothes and shoes to buy.
If only this was true - how I'd love to only have to turn up to a nude shoot in the clothes I'm wearing and with my usual handbag.
Posted 7 March 2014
IainT
Photographer
IainT
jessicard
If only this was true - how I'd love to only have to turn up to a nude shoot in the clothes I'm wearing and with my usual handbag.
People dont realise how important the quality of a models kit is for Glamour/adult shoots. There are certain models who I think are worth a premium just based on what they can bring to a shoot in terms of kit. The now retired and legendary Danica Collins used to bring outfits and lingerie worth several thousand pounds to shoots, her underwear collection alone cost considerably more than my camera equipment. Although I do keep a considerable amount of modelling kit and at least 50 pairs of shoes in various sizes, My heart still sinks if the model arrives with a small holdall...anything less than a 20KG suitcase is not really acceptable if a model expects top rates....in my opinion anyway
Posted 7 March 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
And don't forget Iain.... 'modelling' shoes (and quite a few models have Louboutins which are typically around the £500 mark iirc)
Posted 7 March 2014
dannyrich
Photographer
dannyrich
IainT

People dont realise how important the quality of a models kit is for Glamour/adult shoots. There are certain models who I think are worth a premium just based on what they can bring to a shoot in terms of kit. The now retired and legendary Danica Collins used to bring outfits and lingerie worth several thousand pounds to shoots, her underwear collection alone cost considerably more than my camera equipment. Although I do keep a considerable amount of modelling kit and at least 50 pairs of shoes in various sizes, My heart still sinks if the model arrives with a small holdall...anything less than a 20KG suitcase is not really acceptable if a model expects top rates....in my opinion anyway


Fair point. Looks like my view was misplaced.
Posted 7 March 2014
IainT
Photographer
IainT
RedChecker
And don't forget Iain.... 'modelling' shoes (and quite a few models have Louboutins which are typically around the £500 mark iirc)
Had a model at the weekend with Louboutins, Jimmy Choo,s and Agent undies. Made me very happy
Posted 7 March 2014
johnlp
Photographer
johnlp
I haven't read every contribution, but I do regularly look at castings put up by models, and my first filter is location. If they are not shooting in London or the South East I won't bother looking at the casting itself. I can't remember ever reading a casting for nude at £15 per hour. So could this be a regional thing? The costs in London and the South East are higher and the general wage expectation is higher, so are these £15 per hour models living "up North"?

Would I jump at the chance of working with a model who was offering £15 per hour for nude? Probably, because then I could do everything up to nude in the same shoot and feel that I was still getting good value for money. Would I pay £40+ per hour for nude? No. So somewhere in between and I'd still be happy, and I'd consider that a reasonable rate of pay for the job. 

I shot with a model today who was prepared to travel two hours, each way, on a train for a 2hr 30min shoot, up to nude, for £100, including travel.  That's about £30 per hour for the shoot time.  But that's a 7 hour day for £100.  If my maths is correct that's about £15 per hour.  It all depends how you calculate the time and the fee.  She also bought cake!
Posted 7 March 2014
Edited by johnlp 7 March 2014
There dont appear to be "set" rates which does make it hard to know who gets what, when and why.

I do feel, in my heart, that its quite sad, really, to hear its such a positive thing to spend shedloads of money on the finest designer clothes, shoes, lingerie, make up, probably portfolios as well. Quite possibly some creativity is dulled at the alter of designer shopping. I love nice things and looking cool, but i feel that if your finances are more in line with the local charity shops, cheap chains, or markets then that really isnt a barrier to success. I never what to be one of these people who make money their God but the unfortunate thing is that if you do become one of these people, you are the last person to realize what you have become.

Its important to keep wages up, i am all for that, but its a balancing act of not alienating the people who employ you

Posted 8 March 2014
There dont appear to be "set" rates which does make it hard to know who gets what, when and why.

I do feel, in my heart, that its quite sad, really, to hear its such a positive thing to spend shedloads of money on the finest designer clothes, shoes, lingerie, make up, probably portfolios as well. Quite possibly some creativity is dulled at the alter of designer shopping. I love nice things and looking cool, but i feel that if your finances are more in line with the local charity shops, cheap chains, or markets then that really isnt a barrier to success. I never what to be one of these people who make money their God but the unfortunate thing is that if you do become one of these people, you are the last person to realize what you have become.

Its important to keep wages up, i am all for that, but its a balancing act of not alienating the people who employ you

Posted 8 March 2014
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