[ Chaperones, Yet Again] ">Is it a good idea ... [ Chaperones, Y...

Is it a good idea ... [ Chaperones, Yet Again]

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61 posts
2 Feb 2012
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
Chrissie_Red

I'm sure you are no longer able to leave details in negative references. I have only left one negative but no comment on it.
I did leave a positive which just said "he turned up on time" - says it all really.


Well done Chrissie - you don't have to leave a negative reference to get the message across. cheekycheeky 

Posted 3 Feb 2012
SMILESPHOTO

Well done Chrissie - you don't have to leave a negative reference to get the message across. cheekycheeky 



This is true, he wasn't a creep or anything just a bit of a knob.
Posted 3 Feb 2012
Bonno
Model
Bonno
I definately think negative references should be left. However, I can also see what hassle it would be. Due to the exact reasons models have put above.

I have worked with people with no references before, if the emails seem normal, I also take a chaperone to at least drop me off in these circumstances.. But funnily enough, the ones with no references have always been perfectly fine, and the two with 50+ references have been dodgy. Seems so odd.

Trouble is, people say... Trust your instinct and if everything seems fine and references are OK then you shouldn't need to take one. BUT... even the most normal planning of shoots/emails don't mean their going to be perfectly safe people.

I mean, come on, your going to a man's house, alone and possibly in the middle of nowhere. References or not, your screwed if your instincts aeren't right. As I've seen.

Also, this whole 'I wouldn't take a friend to work at the office' thing dosen't really work in these circumstances. I mean, Yeah you wouldn't, but how many other people are there at work? You don't go around to a man's house, alone and get naked for pictures at an office job.

Posted 3 Feb 2012
fizzy
Model
fizzy
SMILESPHOTO

Sorry to hear you've had bad experiences Anna but perhaps if others had left bad references then you wouldn't have worked with these people in the first place. Could you not leave a reference along the lines of 'Working with XXXX was a real experience  - please contact me for details'? Even if you write something vaguely complimentary, suggesting people contact you first might help others avoid a similar situation and if they don't seek your advice first then that's their fault and you have a clear conscience.



Then the whole thing would be down to interpretation and it would be back to the original problem.

I do agree models should leave negative references and it's never hurt me any but then I'm a cynical and thick-skinned old bitch. I can't really judge anyone else too harshly for being scared or whatever, that's not their fault, it's the fault of the person who abused them for putting them in the situation in the first place.

Posted 3 Feb 2012
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
fizzy

Then the whole thing would be down to interpretation and it would be back to the original problem.

I do agree models should leave negative references and it's never hurt me any but then I'm a cynical and thick-skinned old bitch. I can't really judge anyone else too harshly for being scared or whatever, that's not their fault, it's the fault of the person who abused them for putting them in the situation in the first place.



A short one-line reference would usually speak volumes. If I read a model's reference saying 'She turned up and posed as required' it would certainly give me cause to contact the photographer for further elaboration. As Chrissie suggested, just because it might be awkward to leave negative comments, there's no need to leave a three paragraph glowing report!

P.S. Checked your port and 'old' and 'bitch' aren't words which immediately come to mind!!

Posted 3 Feb 2012
mph
Photographer
mph
In any case a negative reference is now just a blue face making it more difficult for the recipient to threaten any sort of legal action - which was I think the main reason the system was changed. Whilst you could still get an angry response it is likely the face will stay on the profile and you can report any messages to the mods. It's clearly not perfect but still helpful to others.
Posted 3 Feb 2012
fizzy
Model
fizzy
SMILESPHOTO

A short one-line reference would usually speak volumes. If I read a model's reference saying 'She turned up and posed as required' it would certainly give me cause to contact the photographer for further elaboration. As Chrissie suggested, just because it might be awkward to leave negative comments, there's no need to leave a three paragraph glowing report!


I still think it's problematic to leave a positive reference with any kind of comment. In a sea of sixty or so more gushing references, a model who's checking isn't likely to even see it. Even short comments like the one you suggested are open to suggestion, some people are just brief and to the point, while 'She turned up and posed as required' may be an uncharacteristically poor reference to you, to others it might seem like extravagent praise.
Posted 3 Feb 2012
fizzy
Model
fizzy
mph

In any case a negative reference is now just a blue face making it more difficult for the recipient to threaten any sort of legal action - which was I think the main reason the system was changed. Whilst you could still get an angry response it is likely the face will stay on the profile and you can report any messages to the mods. It's clearly not perfect but still helpful to others.


Believe me, they threaten legal action at the drop of a hat.


Posted 3 Feb 2012
Andrew43
Photographer
Andrew43
I always welcome and even positively suggest bringing a female chaperon (note the spelling, no "e" on the end). These are used to help the model put on the occasionally complex costumes needed for my project. On occasion they have acted as a "prop" to set the model in the correct position for a shot which simulates talking to another model who isn't there. They also help in the preparation of a lunch break. Otherwise, they sit in the model's changing room and read a book.

I do now draw the line at the male chaperon. In one early "glamour-style" shoot the model brought her father ! He apparently was the only one allowed to drive the family car. That shoot did not achieve all that it might. Nor did the others who brought husbands and boy-friends.

The ideal is mother (good for last minute sewing and costume adjustments) or an older sister. One mother thought the costume "wasn't sexy enough" and made interesting adjustments to a hem line and the cleavage.


Posted 3 Feb 2012
Edited by Andrew43 3 Feb 2012
mph
Photographer
mph
[qt][author]fizzy[/author] Believe me, they threaten legal action at the drop of a hat. [/qt] But they wouldn't have a chance in hell of winning - and would not risk exposing themselves to ridicule if they did. The only grounds for legal action would be libel - and simply giving a blue face could not and would not be construed as such. You could justify a blue face by simply saying they were not someone you liked. But believe me I do understand the reluctance to expose yourself to an unpleasant retaliation - I am not trying to suggest it is easy for models - or indeed probably photographers! Happily I have not had the photographers equivalent of inappropriate model behaviour (yet )
Posted 3 Feb 2012
mph
Photographer
mph
Andrew43

I always welcome and even positively suggest bringing a female chaperon (note the spelling, no "e" on the end).


I always welcome a pedant - despite the fact that the normal accepted spelling today is chaperone as attested by the preference for this in the Oxford Dictionary (regardless of its etymology).
Posted 3 Feb 2012
Edited by mph 3 Feb 2012
Andrew43

 I do now draw the line at the male chaperon..


Surely as this refers to a male it should be chaperone (with an e) or have i missed something,




mph

I always welcome a pedant - despite the fact that the normal accepted spelling today is chaperone as attested by the preference for this in the Oxford Dictionary (regardless of its etymology).



Ah etymology - do you like to study insects then?
Posted 3 Feb 2012
mph
Photographer
mph
clearview_photography

Surely as this refers to a male it should be chaperone (with an e) or have i missed something.

Ah etymology - do you like to study insects then?



The etymology (sic - as opposed to entomology) is as follows:

1720, from Fr. chaperon "protector," especially "female companion to a young woman," earlier "head covering, hood" (c.1400), from O.Fr. chaperon "hood, cowl" (12c.),

English writers often spell it chaperone, apparently under the supposition that it requires a feminine termination (as most chaperon(e)s were feminine). Therefore if it were a male as you suggest the word would still not end in an "e"!

However, the most frequently accepted usage is now "chaperone" as can be seen from the Oxford dictionary where this spelling is given precedence.

Posted 3 Feb 2012
Edited by mph 3 Feb 2012
Andrew43
Photographer
Andrew43
My version of the Shorter Oxford Dictionary (in two volumes, dated 1980, page 314) only lists chaperon. I guess the OED has given up trying to fight this one.

I suppose we will also have to accept advisor (the American spelling) in place of adviser (the "correct" English spelling).


Posted 3 Feb 2012
Edited by Andrew43 3 Feb 2012
mph
Photographer
mph
Andrew43

My version of the Shorter Oxford Dictionary (in two volumes, dated 1980, page 314) only lists chaperon. I guess the OED has given up trying to fight this one. I suppose we will also have to accept advisor (the American spelling) in place of adviser (the "correct" English spelling).


cheeky

The online version now only has "chaperone" as a heading word (with chaperon as an alternaive). frown
Posted 3 Feb 2012
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