Scottish referendum.

Scottish referendum.

143 posts
15 Feb 2014
click_gotcha
Photographer
click_gotcha
RedChecker

+1

I'm also of the genuine belief it should also be all or nothing. 

They're either with us or they're not, I don't agree with any half-measures as Salmond would prefer.


I if they vote 'no' however I would like to see the West Lothian Question resolved, in so much that Scottish MPs cannot vote on English matters.


How do you see this affecting the position of Prime Minister?   Obviously a PM who represents a Scottish constituancy would have influence on all things.

Posted 16 Feb 2014
click_gotcha

How do you see this affecting the position of Prime Minister?   Obviously a PM who represents a Scottish constituancy would have influence on all things.



I think that in terms of the cabinet ministers and the ministers of state there should be no issues. 

However if the person is a back bench MP then Northern Irish, Scots and Welsh MPs should not vote on things that only affect England. 

Many Labour and SNP MP's will see this as payback for the past.  For example for the Pole Tax etc.

However I still think that they should not vote on these matters.
Posted 16 Feb 2014
gerryquiff
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gerryquiff
Astphoto

I think we should have a referendum on if we allow them to stay.


Ask your MP to request this from the government that you voted in.  Good luck cheeky

Posted 16 Feb 2014
gerryquiff
Photographer
gerryquiff
HowardJ

It's a bit annoyed that you can be Scottish born and breed and yet live in England and get no vote. If they vote yes then you'll end up becoming a citizen of Scotland without having had any say in the matter. I suspect it won't happen though.


Sounds pretty fair to me. smiley


Posted 16 Feb 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
That isn't how our parliamentary democracy works.
Where would you draw the line. Can people in Cornwall vote on hs2? Would you let Mps from Manchester vote on heathrow expansion ?

Posted 16 Feb 2014
HowardJ

It's a bit annoyed that you can be Scottish born and breed and yet live in England and get no vote. If they vote yes then you'll end up becoming a citizen of Scotland without having had any say in the matter. I suspect it won't happen though.


If you had moved to Spain then you would be allowed to vote in the election.  People who live on foriegn countries, however they retain the right to vote in UK elections they can vote in this.

However if you were born in Dumfries and move to Carlisle then you lose the right to vote.

It is ridiculous.



Posted 16 Feb 2014
Andy_B
Photographer
Andy_B
stolenfaces

That isn't how our parliamentary democracy works. Where would you draw the line. Can people in Cornwall vote on hs2? Would you let Mps from Manchester vote on heathrow expansion ?


But this concept has already been broken. Devolution has already weakened Westminster's power north of the border. Resolving the West Lothinan question would just mean putting a reciprocal agreement in place to remove Scottish MP's powers in England.
Posted 16 Feb 2014
RedChecker
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RedChecker
Andy_B

But this concept has already been broken. Devolution has already weakened Westminster's power north of the border. Resolving the West Lothinan question would just mean putting a reciprocal agreement in place to remove Scottish MP's powers in England.


Exactly
Posted 16 Feb 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
RedChecker
Exactly
So do you think that Manchester or Nottingham MPs should be able to vote on heathrow's 3rd runaway ?
Posted 16 Feb 2014
jivago
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jivago
After that dull uniformed read, its no surprise at all that the Yes vote is rising........... "The Scottish National party (SNP) administration has already dismissed Osborne's speech as "bluff, bluster and bullying". Salmond will attack Osborne's stance when he speaks to the pro-independence Business for Scotland organisation. He said: "The reality is the pound is as much Scotland's as the rest of the UK. By suggesting otherwise, the Westminster establishment – Tories, Labour and Lib Dems – are reaping a backlash from the ordinary people of Scotland, who feel this is an attempt to bully Scotland ahead of the democratic choice we all look forward to this September. "I will be deconstructing the chancellor's ill-thought-out and misinformed intervention point by point, making clear why a currency union not only favours Scotland but is in the clear economic interests of the UK as well. "For example, the chancellor will have to explain exactly why he favours imposing almost £500m worth of higher transaction costs on UK businesses instead of entering a perfectly feasible sterling area with the rest of the UK's second biggest trading partner. "The Scottish government has welcomed the recent acknowledgement by the Treasury that it will remain legally liable for all debt issued by the UK government up to the point of independence, and we will continue to take the fair and reasonable position that an independent Scotland should finance a fair share of that. "However, the chancellor will have to wake up to the fact that he cannot lay claim to assets to which Scotland has a share – such as the Bank of England and the pound – and still expect an independent Scotland to meet a share of UK liabilities." He added: "These are just two examples of undemocratic and self-defeating positions being put forward by a Westminster establishment that continues to say whatever campaign rhetoric suits their cause before the referendum and highlights why they will smartly change their tune after it."
Posted 17 Feb 2014
gerryquiff
Photographer
gerryquiff
Andy_B
And they will have a new currency! Not the Euro ('cos Spain and Germany wouldn't let them join). Maybe they'll return to the 'groat'?
I think they've got it covered
Posted 17 Feb 2014
jivago
Photographer
jivago
SMILESPHOTO

Apparently it's been announced that an independent Scotland is likely to find it difficult to join the EU and this will put many voters off wanting independence. I would have thought that many would have found this a positive enticement!!


Maybe the Scots find the French far more open minded, cosmopolitian warm and welcoming than 'Lil Ingerlunders' ?

Puzzle though! -  If Scotland stays in the UK, then the 'Lil Ingerlunders' may drag her out of the European Union, when we have the UKIP (sorry conservative - It s so easy to get them mixed up) referendum. Scotland could end up in a Union containing the likes of Baron Von Osborne & the'Lil Ingerlunders' - But out of the European Union! sad

Posted 17 Feb 2014
gerryquiff

I think they've got it covered


haha thats the one!

I still think its cute when English models come up to Scotland and swoon over our crisp notes.. Imagine them collecting the "quids" on their tours!

Posted 17 Feb 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
jivago

After that dull uniformed read, its no surprise at all that the Yes vote is rising........... "The Scottish National party (SNP) administration has already dismissed Osborne's speech as "bluff, bluster and bullying". Salmond will attack Osborne's stance when he speaks to the pro-independence Business for Scotland organisation. He said: "The reality is the pound is as much Scotland's as the rest of the UK. By suggesting otherwise, the Westminster establishment – Tories, Labour and Lib Dems – are reaping a backlash from the ordinary people of Scotland, who feel this is an attempt to bully Scotland ahead of the democratic choice we all look forward to this September. "I will be deconstructing the chancellor's ill-thought-out and misinformed intervention point by point, making clear why a currency union not only favours Scotland but is in the clear economic interests of the UK as well. "For example, the chancellor will have to explain exactly why he favours imposing almost £500m worth of higher transaction costs on UK businesses instead of entering a perfectly feasible sterling area with the rest of the UK's second biggest trading partner. "The Scottish government has welcomed the recent acknowledgement by the Treasury that it will remain legally liable for all debt issued by the UK government up to the point of independence, and we will continue to take the fair and reasonable position that an independent Scotland should finance a fair share of that. "However, the chancellor will have to wake up to the fact that he cannot lay claim to assets to which Scotland has a share – such as the Bank of England and the pound – and still expect an independent Scotland to meet a share of UK liabilities." He added: "These are just two examples of undemocratic and self-defeating positions being put forward by a Westminster establishment that continues to say whatever campaign rhetoric suits their cause before the referendum and highlights why they will smartly change their tune after it."


I'm neautral over whether Scotland stays part of the Union or not and good luck to them if they choose independence but are you seriously suggesting that the rUK and BoE should underwrite the economy of a newly independent Scotland (if the vote is YES of course)?

I think the people of the rUK might have something to say about that and it won't be what the Nationalists or the Scots want to hear.

The Nationalists or should we say Salmond and his moll got it completely wrong when they wrongly assumed that they could keep the pound as their currency until they could dump any links to the BoE just as they dumped the rUK. 

A currency union with rUK is just not going to happen as it would be far too risky and given that the SNP doesn't even have any credible policies or a Plan B regarding currency union of any kind, it would be foolish to even consider it.
It has nothing to do with bullying as claimed in the SNP bluster - it's Westminster protecting the interests of the people of the rUK and something that any sensible country's government would do under the circumstances. 

If I was a Scot with a mortgage, job, a pension, shares/investments etc right now and faced with making a lifechanging decision like this, I'd want the party which wants me to vote for them to come up with policies which prove that an independent Scotland would be making that decision based on a sound financial footing and proven policies and not just the dreams of disaffected SNP supporters.
No doubt at some point the EU will accept Scotland as an independent member country but it won't be overnight, so in the meantime where or who will Scotland borrow it's money from and at what cost to the Scottish taxpayer? 
Again, even if you shed the Westminster control over Scotland you are going to substitute one set of rulers with the EU who will probably make you pay a high price for being a member of their club so freedom often comes at a very high price.

Just my views of course.wink
Posted 17 Feb 2014
Edited by tonycsm 17 Feb 2014
click_gotcha
Photographer
click_gotcha
tonycsm

I'm neautral over whether Scotland stays part of the Union or not and good luck to them if they choose independence but are you seriously suggesting that the rUK and BoE should underwrite the economy of a newly independent Scotland (if the vote is YES of course)?

I think the people of the rUK might have something to say about that and it won't be what the Nationalists or the Scots want to hear.

The Nationalists or should we say Salmond and his moll got it completely wrong when they wrongly assumed that they could keep the pound as their currency until they could dump any links to the BoE just as they dumped the rUK. 

A currency union with rUK is just not going to happen as it would be far too risky and given that the SNP doesn't even have any credible policies or a Plan B regarding currency union of any kind, it would be foolish to even consider it.
It has nothing to do with bullying as claimed in the SNP bluster - it's Westminster protecting the interests of the people of the rUK and something that any sensible country's government would do under the circumstances. 

If I was a Scot with a mortgage, job, a pension, shares/investments etc right now and faced with making a lifechanging decision like this, I'd want the party which wants me to vote for them to come up with policies which prove that an independent Scotland would be making that decision based on a sound financial footing and proven policies and not just the dreams of disaffected SNP supporters.
No doubt at some point the EU will accept Scotland as an independent member country but it won't be overnight, so in the meantime where or who will Scotland borrow it's money from and at what cost to the Scottish taxpayer? 
Again, even if you shed the Westminster control over Scotland you are going to substitute one set of rulers with the EU who will probably make you pay a high price for being a member of their club so freedom often comes at a very high price.

Just my views of course.wink


We're not going to become independent overnight, it will take 2 years of negotiations with rUK and we will still be in the EU during those 2 years.   So, plenty of time to negotiate terms with the EU too.   The currency remains to be seen but is in no way a deal breaker.   I think it's interesting that George Osborne delivered his "You're not using the £" speech but then refused to answer any questions afterwards and instead sneaked out a side door into a waiting car to the airport.  If he was so confident in his polcy why didn't he field any questions about it?  I'm pretty sure many businnes in England Wales and NI would want to ask him about the cost of exchanging currency that they will have to pay if Scotland doesn't use the £.

Posted 17 Feb 2014
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