Okay, so Scotland leaves the UK and the rest of the UK leaves the EU

Okay, so Scotland leaves the UK and the rest of the UK leaves the EU

35 posts
10 Jan 2014
jivago
Photographer
jivago
cziiki

yes, sure, the EU would happily lose all that massive area of fishing waters (and petrochemicals and tidal and wind energy)? Or maybe not. the sterling thing, yes probably that's a bit dodgy, though it's Scotland's currency too and England has no right to try to claim it to itself. The UK is a UNION of countries, Scotland never stopped being a nation with its own laws. The independence issue is not as simplistic as the English press presents it. What Scots really want is 'Devolution taken to the max' but that's not an option in the referendum which was not democratically defined but created by Cameron and Salmond in a wee huddle.


Uh-huh 'Devo Max' is what 75% of Scotland seems to have wanted. The No AKA 'fear campaighn' is crass - Interesting to see what the 'Better-Together' folks come up with as a constructive counter-offer to Indepenence? - (It's over to them now).

Posted 13 Jan 2014
AegeanSoft
Photographer
AegeanSoft
cziiki

Indeed the UK was created in Edinburgh by the Act of Union, so if the union broke up there would be no UK. Loyalists in Northern Ireland (mainly of Scottish Protestant descent) are not loyal to England, but to the crown, so would have no reason to want to stay in a rump UK with England. The first pound note was Scottish (under license from the BoE) - the pound is the currency of the Union, not of England, and Westminster has no particular right to claim it should continue to control it when the Union does not exist. Equally England would find it hard to justify remaining in the Security Council, it would be one of the top 4 European nations but Germany or the EU would seem to have much better claim. All the small separatist movements in Europe would get a big boost by a civilised democratic negotiated split - i.e. the world would see you can do it without having a war! - Italy and Germany were both clusters of small states until very recently, who knows if any of those historic city states would see possibilities, specially if Scotland stayed in the EU. The dissolution of the Union would be the beginning of a major series of events. Maybe a back door to peaceful progress towards anarchism! If Scotland prospered, doing its own thing within a social democratic concensus, others would follow. Me, I'd love to be Cornish and have a passport with piskies on every page and cream tea as the national dish.


Tosh ... the Bank of England would not support a seperate Scottish Pound because it would mean supportting that financial communist moron Salmond's socialist policies to the detriment of the value of the English Pound.

The UK sits on the Security Council at the UN because we have nuclear weapons. That is the basis of Security Council membership.

Scottish tourism is already affected by that Don QuixSalmond's 'Green' policies having destroyed some of the most beautiful scenary in the UK by covering it with windmills that only work when it is warm with light breezes.  I don't see RBS and BoS keeping their headquarters in Scotland after seperation when they see the massive tax rises that Salmond will have to impose to pay for his socialist utopia. All the major financial institutions will migrate south of the border in the first 12 months of seperate Scotland. The job losses in Scotland after seperation will be on a scale not seen since the Great Drepression.

Scotland would not be allowed into the EU because Spain will veto it. They will never allow Scotland in because of their own Catalan and Basque seperatist movements. It takes ALL EU members to vote for new member to join.  If, God forbid, they did let Scotland in they would impose the Euro and the Schengen open borders agreement on Scotland which will mean that England would probably have to consider border and financial controls, especially if England leaves the EU.

When you have to brainwash kids with Braveheart retoric (and the attrocious and innacurate film produced by Mel Gibson, a proven hater of the English) and then give them the vote at 16 just to have a chance of winning a seperatist vote then that tells me all I need to know about the SNP and the validity of their arguments.

Posted 13 Jan 2014
Edited by AegeanSoft 12 Jan 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
AegeanSoft
Tosh ... the Bank of England would not support a seperate Scottish Pound because it would mean supportting that financial communist moron Salmond's socialist policies to the detriment of the value of the English Pound. The UK sits on the Security Council at the UN because we have nuclear weapons. That is the basis of Security Council membership. Scottish tourism is already affected by that Don QuixSalmond's 'Green' policies having destroyed some of the most beautiful scenary in the UK by covering it with windmills that only work when it is warm with light breezes.  I don't see RBS and BoS keeping their headquarters in Scotland after seperation when they see the massive tax rises that Salmond will have to impose to pay for his socialist utopia. All the major financial institutions will migrate south of the border in the first 12 months of seperate Scotland. The job losses in Scotland after seperation will be on a scale not seen since the Great Drepression. Scotland would not be allowed into the EU because Spain will veto it. They will never allow Scotland in because of their own Catalan and Basque seperatist movements. It takes ALL EU members to vote for new member to join.  If, God forbid, they did let Scotland in they would impose the Euro and the Schengen open borders agreement on Scotland which will mean that England would probably have to consider border and financial controls, especially if England leaves the EU. When you have to brainwash kids with Braveheart retoric (and the attrocious and innacurate film produced by Mel Gibson, a proven hater of the English) and then give them the vote at 16 just to have a chance of winning a seperatist vote then that tells me all I need to know about the SNP and the validity of their arguments.
Don't sit on the fence, tell us what you really think. Is this a game of spot the x number of truths in a a pile of rubbish? If nuclear weapons are the qualification for security council membership why aren't Israel, India and Pakistan permanent members? I'm guessing from your 'beliefs' that you are in favour of Scotland leaving the Union, or maybe you'd be happier if Derbyshire left the union. I can't help feeling that it's people like you that the Scots want to leave.
Posted 13 Jan 2014
stolenfaces

Don't sit on the fence, tell us what you really think. Is this a game of spot the x number of truths in a a pile of rubbish? If nuclear weapons are the qualification for security council membership why aren't Israel, India and Pakistan permanent members? I'm guessing from your 'beliefs' that you are in favour of Scotland leaving the Union, or maybe you'd be happier if Derbyshire left the union. I can't help feeling that it's people like you that the Scots want to leave.


I read the rant and thought I was reading a tabloid newspaper.

You know the funny thing is I don't vote - never have voted and don't give much of a shit either way but when people say "it wont happen.. you are stuck with us - everything will be awful because Scotland need us.." then throw some insults towards our "shitty" country it actually makes me think "f$%k this, I'm voting for independance just to prove these little bastards wrong"..

Maybe not the "right" reason to vote but its as good as reason as I can think of. 


Posted 13 Jan 2014
cziiki
Photographer
cziiki
[qt][author]AegeanSoft[/author]
Tosh ... the Bank of England would not support a seperate Scottish Pound because it would mean supportting that financial communist moron Salmond's socialist policies to the detriment of the value of the English Pound.

Scottish tourism is already affected by that Don QuixSalmond's 'Green' policies ...  All the major financial institutions will migrate south of the border in the first 12 months of seperate Scotland. ...

Scotland would not be allowed into the EU because Spain will veto it.... they would impose the Euro and the Schengen open borders agreement on Scotland which will mean that England would probably have to consider border and financial controls...

When you have to brainwash kids with Braveheart retoric...give them the vote at 16 just to have a chance of winning a seperatist vote ...
[/qt]
Ranting is fun but not necessarily helpful unless you want a column in the Daily Mail.

The policies of Salmond or Cameron are irrelevant to the independence issue. Independence is for centuries, politicians and policies are forgotten in the blink of a gnat's eye. Salmond may not even be elected again if Scotland became independent and his party lost its main raison d'etre. Cameron is unlikely to lead the conservatives for much longer. Scotland would still be independent in 100 years.

While Braveheart may be how you understand Scotland's history, it hardly figures in the contemporary debate except as a term for that sort of emotionalised thinking.

Spanish trawlers would lose their use (and huge abuse) of Scottish waters, if Scotland was not an EU country. The veto would not actually be so simple for them to use for purely internal reasons - EU politics is not so simplistic!

Kids are much smarter than you seem to think. Most Scottish kids do discuss these issues in an informed and very committed way, not by watching old movies. The majority of the newly enfranchised teens, in polls, support the Union, not indendence. They will live with the consequences much more than the old farts currently in power. Many see their future internationally and want more international integration, not isolation.

Posted 13 Jan 2014
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