[ Chaperones, Yet Again] ">Is it a good idea ... [ Chaperones, Y...

Is it a good idea ... [ Chaperones, Yet Again]

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61 posts
2 Feb 2012
Bonno
Model
Bonno
Socialdisaster

FIFTY ONE good recommendations. .


The guy Im talking about had about that too!!
Posted 2 Feb 2012
Fox2006
Photographer
Fox2006
Chrissie pretty much nailed it there.



Posted 2 Feb 2012
Bonno
Model
Bonno
I agree, Chrissie did sum it up well. I just think there are bad photographers and good one's, like their are good and bad chaperones. I would be so embarrassed if I had a chaperone that stole and behaved badly. Whenever I have taken one in the past they have behaved brilliantly. Recently, Whilst doing home shoots, my boyfriend was sat there whilst I did adult, quite happily, understanding what I do and not having a problem with it. Even made cup of tea I just don't feel everyone should be tarred with the same brush. And this 'I have recommendations' stuff dosen't back anhything up anymore. The photographers that I mentioned in my first post all had from 50-70 references. And they turned out to be the dodgiest and worst experiences!
Posted 2 Feb 2012
Bonno

 I just don't feel everyone should be tarred with the same brush. And this 'I have recommendations' stuff dosen't back anhything up anymore. The photographers that I mentioned in my first post all had from 50-70 references. And they turned out to be the dodgiest and worst experiences!


This is such a shame really I generally trust other models judgements when it comes to references so the fact 50-70 have had positive experiences really worries me. I think I'm lucky in a way, Scotland is a very small place in model/photography terms - if someone farts on a shoot the whole of the Scottish internet model industry knows about it before the end of the shoot. In a way thats a good thing - especially if you are reliable and not crap at what you do. If you are then the news spreads pretty quickly.

Like I said I have worked with people without references, more than a few times. Never had any issues, if people are considerate with their messages and come across well and I know where we will be shooting then I give them my trust. If that trust is ever shat on I think I would really fall apart but thankfully it never has and I don't think it ever will.

As I said before I have never had an issue with a photographer bringing along his wife/another photographer, I trust their judgement that the person is safe and good to be around so if i did want a chaperone for whatever reason I would hope that same level of trust is given back to me. Yes someone could steal your camera from around your neck - someone could run off with my handbag with my money/phone and all my clothes but the chances of that happening are slim.

I have heard some funny chaperone stories though -I remember one photographer telling me he was shooting a new model and her boyfriend came along to watch. My friend *the photographer* turned around and caught the boyfriend having a little play with himself. My friend didn't know where to look, the shoot w as taking place in his livingroom. How uncomfortable would you feel though if someone done that?  - models & photographers.
Posted 2 Feb 2012
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
Surely the issue with chaperones is about common sense. Only a very naieve model would work with a complete stranger with no references in the back of beyond. Do your homework first.
I'm arranging a shoot with a new model at the moment. As she's new, she asked how I felt about chaperones. As she's local to me we've arranged to meet to chat about the sort of images we want to achieve and she's bringing her mum along. If she feels the need for a chaperone on the day and I feel she's good enough for me to warrant working under such conditions then fine. Likewise, if after meeting me and checking references she's happy to work without one then even better.

I think it's mainly an issue with 'TF' work. After all, if I'm paying someone then I expect to be able to have the say on what I want and the model decides whether or not to accept. On the other hand, if the model's paying me then they can bring whoever they want along to watch!

Posted 2 Feb 2012
designerhugh
Photographer
designerhugh
NO

Posted 2 Feb 2012
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
designerhugh

NO


Elaborate a bit Hugh!!!! Are you suggesting there's a better way or are you suggesting there's little common sense around these days? (I'd agree with you there!)

Posted 2 Feb 2012
alexcrawford
Photographer
alexcrawford


NO.

last chaparone that came along after being told "no chaparones" had to sit
outside in the car for a few hours. (titter)

when i've said no and they ignore that, that also rings alarms bells.

i happily lose 5%??? of the shoots i'd like to do due to no chaparone rules,
but its my choice, and i live with it.

i badly regret it in only one case. the model would have been 99% of
what i wanted for a particular shot. (shrugs) oh well !



Posted 2 Feb 2012
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
 posting
Bonno

  And this 'I have recommendations' stuff dosen't back anhything up anymore. The photographers that I mentioned in my first post all had from 50-70 references. And they turned out to be the dodgiest and worst experiences!


I find this worrying. Why the hell would someone leave a good reference for someone (model or tog) if they were 'dodgy'. Anyone doing this should be banned. I personally take great pride in some of the comments I receive and would be horrified to think that anyone I've worked with just gave a good reference on the assumption I'd return the favour. There might be one or two who view references like that but surely the majority tell it how it is - if not, what's the point of the system or indeed the point of Purestorm? The sort of person capable of false references is almost certainly capable of posting false details and images as well.

Posted 2 Feb 2012
Blacklion
Photographer
Blacklion
Well I can safely say I've never tried it on with any model. I like to be professional but at the same time friendly and make the model as comfortable as possible. I think all my recommendations say a lot about how I treat people and how I like to be treated which is why I find it odd that a model wants to bring her boy friend to one of my shoots. If she does not trust me or just doesn't feel comfortable going to a shoot on her own, then maybe she should think about taking up another career.

Posted 2 Feb 2012
ph_oto
Photographer
ph_oto
orsoncarter

I'm going to get on my hobby horse again... If anyone - photographers or models - has a policy about chaperones, it would make sense to state it in your profile notes. That way, when a shoot is being arranged both parties know the score.

So if, for example, a photographer has a 'no chaperone' policy, if a model turns up anounced with a chaperone the photographer is entitled to say 'you should have read my profile notes, so please go away'. Alternatively, if a model states in her notes that she will always have a chaperone, a photographer has no grounds for grumbling when she turns up accompanied for the shoot.



Exactly... My profile clearly states what mine is.
Posted 3 Feb 2012
fizzy
Model
fizzy
SMILESPHOTO

 posting

I find this worrying. Why the hell would someone leave a good reference for someone (model or tog) if they were 'dodgy'. Anyone doing this should be banned. I personally take great pride in some of the comments I receive and would be horrified to think that anyone I've worked with just gave a good reference on the assumption I'd return the favour. There might be one or two who view references like that but surely the majority tell it how it is - if not, what's the point of the system or indeed the point of Purestorm? The sort of person capable of false references is almost certainly capable of posting false details and images as well.



That's not really fair. I've left "photographers" negative references and have, without fail, gotten a PM or a text saying what a lying whore I am and how I must have been imagining what happened. These people are already abusers, they're not going to balk at a bit of extra threatening or emotional manipulation. I would assume that a lot of models are just scared or else they can't deal with any extra fallout on what they've already experienced. There's also this overwhelming attitude sometimes that models shouldn't speak out about the negative aspects of being a freelance model, which unfortunately does include dealing with dodgy characters trying to pass themselves off as photographers, and they may think leaving a negative reference will cost them work or give them a bad reputation (which can be pretty devastating for a model's career).

There's also the problem that the "photographer" in question might kick up a huge stink about having been left a negative reference and simply get it removed, especially if they start spouting their mouth off about legal action, because in a one on one situation the model has no proof.

Posted 3 Feb 2012
TMG
Photographer
TMG

I'm glad when models speak out about bad behaviour. It changed my view of the status quo when a few long running threads discussing this appeared a while back.

I don't allow chaperones myself, purely because I want to eliminate any potential hassle, but after reading those threads I at least understand why some models, particularly new ones, do want them.

The chaperone thing keeps coming up because people with opposite views on the subject have good reason to think the way they do.

Models have told me it's dodgy I don't allow them. From their point of view it's a reasonable assessment - if all I'm interested in is photography, what do I care if there is a passive observer there?

I can even see it from the jealous boyfriend's perspective. You're jogging along perfectly happily with your other half and one day she announces she is going to go off to some strange bloke's place and take her clothes off. She tells him it's perfectly ok, the guy's a professional, he has 600 positive references, it will help her new career etc etc.
But he is a bloke and he understands other blokes a lot better than she does.

Posted 3 Feb 2012
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
fizzy

That's not really fair. I've left "photographers" negative references and have, without fail, gotten a PM or a text saying what a lying whore I am and how I must have been imagining what happened. These people are already abusers, they're not going to balk at a bit of extra threatening or emotional manipulation. I would assume that a lot of models are just scared or else they can't deal with any extra fallout on what they've already experienced. There's also this overwhelming attitude sometimes that models shouldn't speak out about the negative aspects of being a freelance model, which unfortunately does include dealing with dodgy characters trying to pass themselves off as photographers, and they may think leaving a negative reference will cost them work or give them a bad reputation (which can be pretty devastating for a model's career).

There's also the problem that the "photographer" in question might kick up a huge stink about having been left a negative reference and simply get it removed, especially if they start spouting their mouth off about legal action, because in a one on one situation the model has no proof.



Sorry to hear you've had bad experiences Anna but perhaps if others had left bad references then you wouldn't have worked with these people in the first place. Could you not leave a reference along the lines of 'Working with XXXX was a real experience  - please contact me for details'? Even if you write something vaguely complimentary, suggesting people contact you first might help others avoid a similar situation and if they don't seek your advice first then that's their fault and you have a clear conscience.

Posted 3 Feb 2012
SMILESPHOTO

Sorry to hear you've had bad experiences Anna but perhaps if others had left bad references then you wouldn't have worked with these people in the first place. Could you not leave a reference along the lines of 'Working with XXXX was a real experience  - please contact me for details'? Even if you write something vaguely complimentary, suggesting people contact you first might help others avoid a similar situation and if they don't seek your advice first then that's their fault and you have a clear conscience.



I'm sure you are no longer able to leave details in negative references. I have only left one negative but no comment on it.
I did leave a positive which just said "he turned up on time" - says it all really.
Posted 3 Feb 2012
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