T'internet killed that. These days few wannabe models seem to be prepared to do anything much except upload a few selfies to the net and then post a casting call requesting a fistful of tenners... and unfortunately there appear to be even more hobbyist 'togs' willing to empty their wallet for these girls in the hope they'll get a reminder of what their missus used to look like back when they were courting.
Shakes head, sadly my wife never looked like a page 3 model!
But seriously, I do understand the OP, certainly some 'models' do have high expectations when they start. However, many 'photographers' have a high opinion of themselves, but nothing in their portfolio to back it up!
Personally, if a model has a look I can work with, or is adding a genre to my portfolio, I'm happy to pay.
Having read all the reply's, I believe the confusion lay in the word "models".
Bingo... many are camgirls looking to add another income stream and if possible, a clingy sugar-daddy (see Amazon wishlist.) Many are not, and never will be 'models' in the industry sense of the word... I say industry because well, anyone can model pretty much anything, the look accepted by Commercial Agencies is a very different thing... though there are niche's to be found and exploited.
Many 'models' call them... Photographers.
Personally I have "I am not a doormat" tattooed on the inside of my eyelids, and my work standards mean I don't do much on here.
As long as people are enjoying what they are doing, I don't see it as a problem though - happy is happy, and you do what makes you happy... some people remember, pay to be abused and trodden on, some even like their balls kicking by a bird in stilletto's - so there's something for everyone.
When you die though... remember to leave instruction in your will for the hard drive to be put in your cremation coffin, and you're golden; otherwise it could pop up on antiques roadshow 2236; a futuristic "what the butler saw".
Am I being overly critical, or do some models come on here with totally unrealistic ideas of what to expect?
Models and photographers both. These sites are a weird mixture of unrealistic ambition and non relevance to the real world. A place where you can fantasize and play without the risk of financial disaster or a ruined reputation. A dream world you can dip into whenever you want.
Nobody will get rich here or find a sprinboard to fame, it all happens on a computer screen and in your imaginations.
Nope... i've seen models destroy photographers on social media for even the most insignificant of reasons... rep, gone. Spinboard to fame, depends who's viewing your public profile. Financial disaster - depends if you get addicted, you could ride headlong into that one if you have no control... most people do though. I just wish both sides were valued equally.
I think its totally relevant and an opportunity for you to reflect on how you might be perceived in the same context as those models you're trying to poke a finger at. A model without experience or portfolio in fact does stand a good chance of being paid if her look/wardrobe/dance abilty etc appeals. There's nothing unexpected about that and never has been. The concept of having to be humble or work through some kind of apprenticeship including TF and low rates in order to allow every berk with a camera their entitlement to a shop before eventually being snapped up by the fashion or film world, is a bad photographers fantasy. Really excellent potential models just need to walk into an agency appointment to be employed. So, you feeling some kind or righteous indignation, while proving pictorially that you have little more than a very average hobbyist to offer, might seem like a dig. One you're pretty much asking for too.
Pretty much... Some girls can model right out of the box while some models with XX years' experience seem a bit wooden when you work with them - some maintain a fresh approach, but a lot of them seem to go through the motions...
Likewise, some photographers seem to confuse the time they've owned a camera for 'experience'... All those words on our profiles mean nothing if the images don't come up to scratch.
Having experience is irrelevant. It's all down to how photogenic the model is. Great looking models should charge from day one. Photographers should pay from day one to protect ownership and control of their work.
Photographers should pay from day one to protect ownership and control of their work.
Photographers (in Great Britain and Northern Ireland) need to pay nothing whatsoever to anybody "to protect ownership and control of their work" as their ownership and control is enshrined in law, and has been for 28 years; however I acknowledge photographers might need to pay court and solicitors' fees to seek recompense from those who break or ignore the law on ownership of images.
I love this place for comments like that last one. Completely irrelevant, avoids the point of the question totally, but a good opportunity to poke at someone.
Maybe you would like to make a relevant comment about the question? How do you feel about new models coming on a site asking for money when they have no experience, no portfolio and have never modelled before?
Discussions often take a point and enlarge it making the discussion more valuable. It's called adult conversation.
"a good opportunity to poke at someone." Just like you're doing.
Back at the ranch..I always pay models. I wish to retain complete control of my work and don't want to see it on the net under someone else's name. It has happened and it's why my portfilio is small, hasn't changed in the age of a pig and contains only work to validate my presence here.
Models deserve something for their time and expense unless it's a mutually convenient collaboration.
Generally speaking there is always a male-club atmosphere about these portfolio hosting sites that reeks of misplaced smugness that I find repugnant. It's totally irrelevant to good photography, spawns a meanness of spirit towards models and does nothing to enhance anyone's reputation as a photographer or a person.
If you care about your photography and not your male ego pay up.