The appeal behind topless modelling?

The appeal behind topless modelling?

66 posts
27 Feb 2016
AndyGStudios
Photographer
AndyGStudios
Go easy, the kids a fashion student, how many of us knew to state everything when we first bought a camera when beginning to interact with models? Education is key, the kids blind to what we know, and if anything it's up to the paid model to find out what the paying client wants. Unexpected or unforeseen issues on-set you deal with professionally, not walk off in a huff. Imagine if your plumber ran into a complication, swore at the pipe which is now gushing water, asked for the money anyway then walked off leaving an unfinished job behind him. It's no different. Even different lighting could have made all the difference. Solutions are the key, not leaving someone hanging after accepting the work. I would never recommend such a person to anyone else. Flip it round, photographer at a wedding... DOH the Rev suddenly says "you cant use flash" - Oh well, **** that then, and walk out LMAO, as if...
Posted 28 Feb 2016
For one, that 'kid' was a late 30 something year old man, and secondly, I did not walk off in a huff, I explained to him calmly that I did not want to wear the material without TINY bits of parcel tape, to which he was having none of then HE tried to turn it around on me and almost blame me for the fact he was in the mess from leaving all his work to the last minute, and it was at that point I decided to apologise that I couldn't be more help to him and made my exit - which you would have known if you'd read the bloody thread properly. Why do you keep doing that, trying to turn bits of the story into things they're not then going off on a whole other tangent?



Posted 28 Feb 2016
Edited by Kimmikitsch 28 Feb 2016
Lack of basis in your argument perhaps
Posted 28 Feb 2016
AndyGStudios
Photographer
AndyGStudios
There's a reason for that. You're not providing the whole story, even if it's only one side of it - he's not here to defend himself, so it's acceptable to imho to give a little with the version of events as provided in your favour.

"For you information, I did not care for payment"
- You didn't give us that earlier, and I said "He offered you £50" and "you accepted the assignment."

And, i'm the one who's not reading ?

Lack of argument ? hardly... though you do realize there's an edit button attached to your post, yes ?

If you scrutinize my example, it's giving you a tip on how not to get into hot water - you're welcome.
You didn't give an age, you gave a situation leading people to assume a youthful age.
Wearing parcel tape on a finished work of fashion, yeah look flamin ridiculous - of course he wouldn't give way on it, he didn't want to be laughed at. If that was the point of the shoot however, bang on, if not, the right thing to do is consider half payment, blame him for not describing the job enough - it then becomes his fault, and you may want to suggest an alternative model who can deliver what he needs to achieve.

Yes I get you don't like what I wrote, that's because it's not what you want to hear. And you love people who take your side. I'd sooner see things more pragmatically, and not take sides. You said "£50 for up to 8 hours - so I was actually doing him a favour answering him at such short notice for pretty much F all!."

"F'All", is nothing
"pretty much F'all", is something.

Please be clear in what you write and people won't assume the wrong idea. Nobody here, was there, we only know what you tell us. And you wanted a discussion on it, or you wouldn't have posted it in the first place. Also... the difference between argument, and opinion.

Posted 28 Feb 2016
Edited by AndyGStudios 28 Feb 2016
digineil
Photographer
digineil
Kimmi does not have nude or topless listed in her levels so it looks to me like the guy was level pushing. Plenty of models shoot nude so why push the levels ?



Posted 28 Feb 2016
AndyGStudios
Photographer
AndyGStudios
Nude is no clothing, Topless is no clothing on top. Fashion does by definition of hole, cut, or sheer include nipples; and that may be his understanding of it, in which case, he's right.

Posted 28 Feb 2016
Bob
Photographer
Bob
Kimmikitsch

Asides from the obvious reason, after my experiences from many photo sessions and looking through other photographers' portfolios that claim to capture these so called 'tasteful' topless and nude shots (although in many cases I fail to see claimed tastefulness), I find myself frequently wondering why photographers are so keen on capturing images like these, as I have a suspicion the intention isn't always pure - perhaps some even use photography as a front solely for seeing an undressed woman?

In some cases you suspicion might be correct.
In some cases the photographer will openly admit that they take photographs of topless or nude models purely because they like to take such photos photos.
In some cases some of us may fail to see the claimed tastefulness in images and may consider them to be tasteless, just like some of us may fail to see the art in other people's art.
That's life for you.

Kimmikitsch

I answered a casting call recently from a photography student requesting a model to wear some dresses for his fashion project, which was actually left to the last minute as he had no pictures and his project needed to be handed in the following week, for which he could only offer £50 for up to 8 hours - so I was actually doing him a favour answering him at such short notice for pretty much F all!

I think we should applaud you for helping out a student and only charging £50 in his week of need.

Kimmikitsch

What he didn't specify in the description was that the dress was actually a tatty piece of see-through material with a hole in the middle to fit my head in,

Having seen some of the distressed fabric and see-through creations that some professional models paraded down the catwalk in at LFW, that photography student
might have a great career ahead if he goes down the fashion designer route instead.

Kimmikitsch

I wasn't even allowed to wear underwear, yet he could 'photoshop out anything I wanted' such as nipples and genialia - yet when I tried to compromise with him by offering to cover those bits with parcel tape for my comfort, it was a problem and he remarked with 'well that would just look silly, wouldn't it'- which would make anyone go wtf, how does that make sense?!

Yes, parcel tape would look silly. It is comparably easy to Photoshop out subtle areas of skin tone change like nipples and genitalia behind fabric, and indeed I have regularly done this for model friends who pose in lingerie like you have done but "do not want anything to show". However creating the same effect with larger strips of glossy parcel tape, which bounces back the light, would be a much more difficult job so I would not consider. Fabric skin-tone cuts & abrasions plasters are much easier, which is why many professionals use them for just that purpose (though these sometimes do not work on hirsute areas).

Kimmikitsch

After telling me that this was for the purpose of fashion and that he couldn't tailor his ideas to suit me, I decided enough was enough and I walked out.

That was your prerogative, but could have backfired on you on a professional shoot or catwalk booking. In future I suggest you discuss precisely what is required before accepting a booking. details like that are every bit as important, maybe even more so, than the fee.

Kimmikitsch

Has this ever happened to anybody before? What is it with some photographers that seem so desperate to get a woman naked, even if she doesn't feel comfortable?

Mabe that photographer photographer was only desperate to complete the assignment, rather than desperate to "get a woman naked". After all sites like this are full of women who are more than willing to disrobe for photographers if that was his only aim. Some of them are even prepared to pose naked just for the art or for the experience, rather than as a way of making money.

Kimmikitsch

I also fail to understand how people like this don't have a single bit of negative feedback on their page too!

Not everyone who models sees things in the same light. To answer the question in the heading of this very topic: "The appeal behind topless modelling?" Some model for cash, some model for the art, some model to overcome confidence issues, and some model because they are exhibitionists. If the photographer in question has adequately met the expectations of those who have previously modelled for him and has not stepped beyond any boundaries, it is unsurprising he only has positive feedback.

Bob
Posted 28 Feb 2016
Bob
Photographer
Bob
digineil

Kimmi does not have nude or topless listed in her levels so it looks to me like the guy was level pushing. 

Kimmi does, however, have plenty of work on her portfolio where she has posed while nude, topless or in see-through lingerie; i.e. quite possibly similar to the effect that the photographer was aiming to create.

Rather than "level-pushing" this sounds more like poor pre-shoot communications, by one or even both parties, though as none of us were in the loop and only one side of the story has been given only those concerned will know for sure.

Bob

Posted 28 Feb 2016
AndyGStudios
Photographer
AndyGStudios
^^ This

Also:
"a photography student requesting a model"
"his project needed to be handed in the following week"

Then you say he's 30...


Bob's spot on, people do it for different reasons. Some model for cash, some model for fun, some for the creativity and some for the experience. Photographers are the same, some do it professionally, they may sell image sets on clips4sale for example. Some are GWC's, so for the fun and creativity of it all.

To echo Bob : "If the photographer in question has adequately met the expectations of those who have previously modelled for him and has not stepped beyond any boundaries, it is unsurprising he only has positive feedback."

The appeal, to get back to the initial question (not the moan) is simple... men like tits. Yep, bold and as plain as it is, men, love, tits... some love legs, some bums, but mostly tits, and few can evade it's tender allure. The internet is mostly tits ! it's true. It's base level neanderthal instinct for the vast majority of men, it's just that some, own cameras.

Posted 28 Feb 2016
Hot water lol, would hardly give it the flattery of even naming it that, this is just pointless nitpicking and pedantry from your end - if I'm not providing enough information for you understanding, is it really that hard to ask rather than making a song and dance based solely on empty assumptions? Or would that be the part where you give me a lecture on my literacy skills and point out every single minor error for your own sense of self validation? No need for the smug 'you're welcome', I'm not thanking you for anything.
And care to explain the difference between photoshopping out nipples/genitals and tiny patches of parcel tape because I do not see how one is more problematic over the other if it's all going through the same editing process - well?

Posted 28 Feb 2016
Also I like your answer Bob, you properly broke down my story into parts and effectively de-fused them individually, so I thank you for that.

Posted 28 Feb 2016
AndyGStudios
Photographer
AndyGStudios
First "information for you understanding" ? Lead assumptions, lead assumptions, as in you have inferred or alluded to information you did not otherwise provide. The photoshopping depends on HIS level of skills with photoshop #assumptions doesn't it ? not all photographers are born with the inherent skills to understand cut n paste or frequency separation (skin) - what about matching tone ? more 'assumptions - some models have objected to tats being removed, teeth replaced or edited... there's a fine line you walk when you 'edit' something; all that comes in under communication. However, I can plainly see from your response you only want positive replies rather than honest opinion, and you started the conversation so... yeah. You don't see the value, and you're the only one being defensive, so there's little point continuing, you won't take anything useful away from the discourse beyond "I was right, and he was wrong".
Posted 28 Feb 2016
Edited by AndyGStudios 28 Feb 2016
Bob
Photographer
Bob
Kimmikitsch

And care to explain the difference between photoshopping out nipples/genitals and tiny patches of parcel tape because I do not see how one is more problematic over the other if it's all going through the same editing process - well?

Kimmi, see my post above. Parcel tape is just about the worst thing to use if planning to preserve your modesty behind sheer or mesh fabric.
Bob

Posted 28 Feb 2016
Looks like the cringey hash tags are back i the picture. You seem pretty fixated on just the negatives, whereas Bob above evenly balanced both the negatives and the positives, which is why his answer is better than yours - he also does not diplay characteristics of a smug or inflated egotistic attitude, which is something you could have really done without to be perfectly honest, that's how you get people to actually respond effectively to what you're trying to say to them. And if you want to discontinue the conversation then please do, saves me the job.

Posted 28 Feb 2016
Bob, I saw your answer on the photoshop but we posted comments within seconds of each other so I didn't get a chance to read until after I responded to the other guy.

Posted 28 Feb 2016
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