so you want paid do you ! ***controversial***

so you want paid do you ! ***controversial***

29 posts
6 Sep 2014
profilepictures
Photographer
profilepictures
Hmm. I'd best butt out of this one before I add to the controversial element further. Not, for clarifies sake, in favour of the bleating exasperation line which suggests Ill equipped models are either commonplace or even an issue - a previous respondent sensibly points out its a matter of choice who you choose to shoot anyway; but because I'd be more inclined to suggest again that all sorts of both model and photographer are here and that leads to a billion permutations based on geography, timing, preference and funding. Any of those factors can produce beautiful pictures, naturally though the majority are pretty hum-drum and many are just shit.

Bottom line is, if the picture turns out crap, it's the photographers fault. Therefore, it's your problem here, not the models problem.




Posted 7 Sep 2014
marlhamphoto
Photographer
marlhamphoto
profilepictures

Not, for clarifies sake, in favour of the bleating exasperation line which suggests Ill equipped models are either commonplace or even an issue

It's not a scenario I recognise either. Perhaps because I don't trawl new model profiles or castings generally so I miss the opportunity to be offended by errant models!

But I do work with plenty of new models. They approach me and if they're local I'm generally happy to sort something out. Although the enquiry generally starts with a question about MY rates or whether I'm open to TF - go figure!

And here's a controversial bit for you. Brand new models are attentive, open-minded and dreadfully keen to implement the photographer's direction - after all they have nothing else to draw on. I've had some amazing shoots with new models - and in terms of output achieved I'd say those particular models are more deserving of pay than many models who've been around for a bit. Why? Because it takes only a few shoots with the abundance of godawful photographers here for their modelling abilities to become constrained, lacklustre and repetitive. With their confidence falsely bolstered by the effusive nonsense those photographers tell them and write in the references they leave them. Consequently models think they're doing well when they're not. But the bigger problem is that they don't recognise that they need to improve.

Bottom line is it's easier for a photographer to get something from a brand new model than it is from one who's been around for a bit. But blame the godawful photographers if you're going to blame anybody!
Posted 7 Sep 2014
marlhamphoto
Photographer
marlhamphoto
photostore

well it seems from my pm's today, that more think like me, but don't want the hassle of saying so on forum...

Ahh the mythical guys (and girls?) with with no ********. What's the chances their photography is godawful too?
Posted 7 Sep 2014
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Well, market forces are what dictates who gets paid and who doesn't.

Its the job of a Professional photographer to make a girl a model. Give me the raw material and I'll produce the goods. If I can't, then the girl really is a no hoper or I'm in the wrong job.

Sure its easier if the girl is actually a model, but "real" models on portfolio hosting sites are a rare breed. A shoot with a "real" model is a bonus and an easy day for me or any good photographer, but I earn my money by making girls look like models, most of the time I shoot who I'm told to shoot. Thats what a Pro photographer does.

As an amateur, you do your research, you pay your money, you take your choice, if you make a bad choice, you have to take responsibility for it

As for "Professional" in relation to modelling, its a rare thing and is nothing to do with income. A handfull of models take their career seriously and can be classed as Professional, the majority are simply playing at being a model and if blokes who want to see them naked are willing to pay for the privilige, why should they turn the money down?

Posted 7 Sep 2014
Why does it matter? They are clearly still getting shoots - so what if they are in a "debt period" in their lives and use modelling as a way of clearing debt or making money? I'd say that's pretty pro active to me! Don't shoot them if you don't want to work with them - you love a good moan on these forums. Move on! Shoot good models and ones your budget afford. These sites have always had girls that aren't serious about "real" modelling on them - they aren't taking work from "real" models who don't want to do as high levels or work with GWCs so where is the harm? So bored of photographers whining about models and their rates. Don't book them then! Who are you to claim a model isn't worthy of her rate? If people pay it then what business is it of yours? They aren't claiming to be the next Kate Moss but as I said if there are enough "GWCs" willing to pay then let them take the money while its there. Not gonna turn down £200 for a days work because "oh I'm not sure if its arty". The pictures stay on the photographers computer and the model gets paid - win/win. Not everyone is here for the "art" - some of us like cold hard cash.
Posted 7 Sep 2014
Bob
Photographer
Bob
IainT

Well, market forces are what dictates who gets paid and who doesn't.

IainT

Its the job of a Professional photographer to make a girl a model. Give me the raw material and I'll produce the goods. If I can't, then the girl really is a no hoper or I'm in the wrong job.

IainT

Sure its easier if the girl is actually a model, but "real" models on portfolio hosting sites are a rare breed. A shoot with a "real" model is a bonus and an easy day for me or any good photographer, but I earn my money by making girls look like models, most of the time I shoot who I'm told to shoot. Thats what a Pro photographer does.

IainT

As an amateur, you do your research, you pay your money, you take your choice, if you make a bad choice, you have to take responsibility for it
(though it is not only the amateur photographer who has to accept responsibility for bad choice of model.)

IainT

As for "Professional" in relation to modelling, its a rare thing and is nothing to do with income. A handfull of models take their career seriously and can be classed as Professional, the majority are simply playing at being a model and if blokes who want to see them naked are willing to pay for the privilige, why should they turn the money down?



Posted 7 Sep 2014
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
photostore



most likely the reasons  for a lot modelling on these forums are:

 I'm genuinly interested and want to try this, usually scared away within a fortnight once their mailbox fills up with dodgy requests
I hate doing this but  it's a quick way to pay off my debts
im between jobs/college
it's just an addition to my sex worker income (or another avenue to paid sex work punters ) oh no he did'nt really say that did he ? yep i sure did !
im going to be the next big thing (delusional)
the list is long and varied




Maybe or maybe not. But none of the models' motives that you've speculated about above are relevant to your original question, which was whether it suffices for the model to be pretty.

When I select a model, her motives for modelling are not only unknown to me; they are also none of my business and, frankly, of little consequence as long as the model is suitable for the job.
Posted 7 Sep 2014
PHP_Photography
Photographer
PHP_Photography
photostore

if i am paying i would not expect to have to describe every pose to you and have to spend more time doing "your job" rather than mine.

Why are you paying then, that shounds more like a TF shoot ?



Posted 7 Sep 2014
Yes, they want paid and good luck to them.
If you don't think a model meets your requirements don't hire them.
There are excellent models on here and other sites, so choose the ones that you want.
Don't worry at how others want to make their living.

If you think that you have an idea that will improve a models port offer TF. If they don't want to do it then that is their purview. It is not something to make personal.



Posted 8 Sep 2014
EdT
Photographer
EdT
pinkbuildingphotography
Yes, they want paid and good luck to them. If you don't think a model meets your requirements don't hire them. There are excellent models on here and other sites, so choose the ones that you want. Don't worry at how others want to make their living.
In a nutshell, this.
Posted 9 Sep 2014
Hugh
Photographer
Hugh
photostore
...is it enough to be pretty? .... getting the tits out
Slim, pretty and naked is all I need. I'm good enough to get decent results from a total beginner. Mind you, the great models are worth every penny.
Posted 9 Sep 2014
OldMaster
Photographer
OldMaster
This has been discussed before..I think!! As much as I agree to some extent it is the market that decides. As long as guys are happy to pay girls, whatever their skills, to take their clothes off, they will continue to take the money to do so.

It works both ways of course, as long as guys who have bought a dslr choose to call themselves togs, girls who stand in ways they never would normally or show their body parts to men with cameras will call themselves models?

Posted 10 Sep 2014
EdT
Photographer
EdT
OldMaster
This has been discussed before..I think!! As much as I agree to some extent it is the market that decides. As long as guys are happy to pay girls, whatever their skills, to take their clothes off, they will continue to take the money to do so.
That's the market deciding.
Posted 10 Sep 2014
paulbatterbury
Photographer
paulbatterbury
Can’t believe I only just stopped this thread until now.

There does seem to be a lot of confusion around at the moment, and I think the kicking off point on this topic are very valid, don’t from my observations alone but from other professional model nearing the end of their careers.

I am finding it hard to replace great models, who are now quitting modeling with the new models that are currently “coming up” to fill the void, they just are not cutting it, those who do seem to be snapped up in complete desperation by agencies, who are quick enough to get them to sign an exclusive agreement because they themselves are in dire straights, which is ok, if they get work, but what most do is get attitude for no reason at all, and rightly said some of these new girls can not function as a model, even with direction and sometime as a photographer it is so frustrating when a girl looks uncomfortable in every pose she makes, because she does not have the confidence or experience, it a waste of time and money.

Then you have almost a complete contradiction, where new and attractive models spend out on trips away and supply the photographers with images for website in return for a few under par shots at best, or throw themselves at the latest photographer who only has one style of shooting regardless if it is TFP or they paid them, the models that can and want to work, who are abused by the system and quit quickly due to being exploited.

Feedback, I always try and leave feedback for everyone I work with, I try to leave something about the way the person has act, in term of professional contact and personality. When I read thing like “she has a great figure” or “she is stunning” like hello and can see her images, and it seem more that whoever left the comments was more frilled to be with the model in the same room, than focused on a photo shoot with them.

Being pretty or young really doesn’t cut it, being a good versatile and flexible model (in terms of style and look.) is, and this is why some girls get ahead quicker and why photographers sometime work with the same model on many occasions. You can look great, but if you have a face that looks like thunder and an attitude, word soon gets about (off the record) and you will miss work offers.

More recently I was turn down by a model, via her agent who was in confusion why she turn down the job and after some digging around, it turn out that she was charging £600 an hour for other services. I don’t have an issue with anyone doing this kind of work for a living, but if you say you are a professional model, then modeling comes first.


Posted 10 Sep 2014
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