Mark Duggan - Lawful killing

Mark Duggan - Lawful killing

82 posts
8 Jan 2014
mph
Photographer
mph
OldMaster

Judge, opinion and justice served out by forum..as usual. Guess we can all wait for the tabloids to tell us the real truth about the trial! How many on here were in the court then?


I understand the jury was present.................?

Posted 9 Jan 2014
I do not like the idea of people being killed at all. I think that the people saying he deserved it are being very blase.
I really do not like the idea of extra judicial killings.
It leads down a path to Argentina, Chile etc. Circa 1960's and 1070's: Operation Condor.


The state must justify their actions. Especially if the state kills someone. They have done so here. Whether the correct decision has been made is one that can never be fully answered. Some people will agree with what the police did. Some will think that they committed murder no matter what happens.

Personally, I do not think that the police kill people lightly. They will have thought that he was armed and dangerous. Whether they should have shot him I do not know. Officers have to account for their actions. Which they did to the Jury's satisfaction.




Posted 9 Jan 2014
Sdeve
Photographer
Sdeve
mph
I understand the jury was present.................?
Two of whom disagreed with the verdict.
Posted 9 Jan 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Sdeve
Two of whom disagreed with the verdict.
Good job they were in the minority then.
Posted 9 Jan 2014
mph
Photographer
mph
Sdeve
Two of whom disagreed with the verdict.
And 10 of whom didn't?
Posted 9 Jan 2014
Sdeve
Photographer
Sdeve
It never ceases to amaze me how many people are happy to let the police kill anyone whom they think deserves death. Often these same people seem to condemn 'vigilantes' or people who 'take the law into their own hands'. The only thing that seems to matter is that the person killed must not be known to the people who think this, and the deceased had a bit of a reputation. The vigilantes in this case, as in many others, are wearing police uniform.


Posted 9 Jan 2014
mph

And 10 of whom didn't?


8.
Posted 10 Jan 2014
RedChecker

There was an interesting documentary on TV a couple of years ago regarding whitness accuracy and how something out of the blue can cause confusion when recalling what happened.  They even performed an elaborate heist with guns being fired (while the witnesses were watching) and the variations in recollection of what happened varied wildly.

It may well be that tests have proven that if you have a rough idea of what was going on (as the police at the scene did) then their version of events is statistically more likely to be correct in comparison to those who were mere bystanders at the scene.


Except the versions initially given weren't correct, regardless of witness statements.

Posted 10 Jan 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
Everyone will have their own opinion on the Duggan shooting and I won't try to change that but if what I've read in the many newspaper reports covering the case are correct, then there are far too many inconsistencies regarding the evidence given by the police about the events which led to Duggan's killing, which in turn should set alarm bells ringing for those who seek the truth.

From my perspective this case is like all the other police shootings which have gone wrong...full of police misinformation, questionable evidence and typical character assassination in order to cover up police incompetence or worse!

This clouding of the facts in turn makes it near impossible for inquest juries to arrive at any other decision/conclusion than Lawful Killing which brings into question as to whether we can actually trust our judicial system to get it right!

Whether or not Duggan was a gangster is not the issue here...it's whether the police got it wrong and covered it up - that should be the concern of everyone!
Posted 10 Jan 2014
SteveSav
Photographer
SteveSav
OldMaster

Judge, opinion and justice served out by forum..as usual. Guess we can all wait for the tabloids to tell us the real truth about the trial! How many on here were in the court then? That's what I thought! Its clear the victim, in his aunt's own words apparently, was no angel but what is also clear is that the gun found by the police was some 20ft away. These are recorded facts. The unlawful killing verdict is perhaps questionable as he was unarmed when shot. What I do respect is his remaining family requesting there be no retaliation or reaction on the street and I understand they will be going for appeal through the justice system..a brave venture for those that perhaps have not come from the higher socio-economic groups. What it highlights again for me is that regardless of the police action in this particular case is that this country as a society is prepared to accept the existence of under classes, often parentless or one remaining parent families living with virtually no chance of ever finding "work" and probably been surviving on benefits for two to three generations. Can one wonder why they might create their own society within these confines. Some may consider the establishment just popping along and shooting them as ok but in truth whilst we are prepared to accept the ever widening gap between the hugely wealthy and the poor, the scams of the rich, the politicians, the CEO's of privatised companies and the relentless unfair cuts to all welfare recipients and God Forbid the middle classes and not forgetting the sum outcome of this is the outrageous xenophobic reaction now to those who are perfectly entitled to come and work in this country actually producing a net gain to the GDP, we all fail to see the real issues? Until some real effort, money and investment is put into the ever increasingly large areas of deprivation we will continue to see riots and gangs. Its the inevitable result of people feeling they are on the rubbish heap. But of course it won't happen because there is really no desire to make it happen. As long as "these people" only shoot and kill each other and not "the nice people" we can live with it? And if they really get out of order we can just go in and shoot them..it will have the support of the rest of society?


What planet are you on? If you're a thug, a gangster or a blackguard with previous and you drive around armed with a gun, hopefully the police will get to you first and releive the streets of more scum...............................get real man!
Posted 10 Jan 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
The Jury's job was to consider whether the Policeman who shot Duggan believed that Duggan posed a deadly threat (ie whether he genuinely believed that Duggan was holding a gun).
As there was (uncontested) evidence that Duggan had collected a gun and that the same gun was found at the scene it is not totally unreasonable that the Policeman could mistake Duggan's actions as threatening to use the gun.
It therefore comes down to whether the Jury believed the (shooter) Policeman's evidence. It seems that no-one on this forum was in court so are not in a position to judge this issue.

Personally I would have thought that any 'execution' would have been better planned and there would not have been all the holes in the case.

It seems likely that armed police will in future wear cameras, and that will hopefully add clarity to future incidents.

Posted 10 Jan 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
stolenfaces

. It seems likely that armed police will in future wear cameras, and that will hopefully add clarity to future incidents.


That is until they get it wrong again and then I wonder how many cameras will be found to be faulty at the time of the incident!

Posted 10 Jan 2014
mph
Photographer
mph
JadedRed

8.


I stand corrrected - though it is still a 4:1 ratio.
Posted 10 Jan 2014
mph

I stand corrrected - though it is still a 4:1 ratio.


OK, but dont do it again !!
Posted 10 Jan 2014
SteveSav

What planet are you on? If you're a thug, a gangster or a blackguard with previous


If we shoot everyone for cannabis possession we are going to end up with some empty universities.
Posted 10 Jan 2014
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