Models who expect me to pay them for their portfolio upgrade

Models who expect me to pay them for their portfolio upgrade

30 posts
24 Nov 2013
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
Possibly 80% or more of the membership of Purestorm is made up of "Hobbyists". The "Hobbyists" pay the bills around here. Anyone wanting to hobnob with only "Professional" photographers and Models can do so on another site we can't mention.

And what's wrong with doing something just for the fun of it anyway?

Posted 25 Nov 2013
MikeBee
Photographer
MikeBee
bdfoto

Sorry everyone ... no I'm not sorry at all ...  I just have to have a moan this morning about the number of models who post castings asking the photographer to pay them, because they want specific images for their portfolio.

Models, if I pay you it is because either:

I have been commissioned to shoot a specific job which requires a specific image or set of images for a specific purpose.  I get paid by the client.  I pay you to model for that job; or

I have a specific need for images for my profile / website / portfolio and you, the model, meets that specific need.

Yesterday's shoot was a male model in a tux and a top hat for a USA marketing agency.  I paid the model for his time, the same as I am paying the Photoshop artist for her time, and the client is paying me.

Models - if you want images for your profile then please be prepared to pay for:

My shooting time,

My studio time,

My heating bill,

My equipment and public liability insurance

My equipment maintenance

My travel time, and most of all

My knowledge of this industry learned over thirty years.

I am, no doubt, not the best photographer here, but please, models, if you want something to enhance your portfolio, then be prepared to pay for it, or at the very least offer collaboration that makes it worth the photographer's time..


Agree 100%... If it's a paid shoot, then it's who ever pays for the shoot that has control over the images. That's the way it is and that's why we have TFP's... Some people!!

Posted 1 Dec 2013
Edited by WebModerator 1 Dec 2013
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
MikeBee
Agree 100%... If it's a paid shoot, then it's who ever pays for the shoot that has control over the images. That's the way it is and that's why we have TFP's... Some people!!
He isn't talking about 'control' he's talking about 'suggesting' particular shots in a casting. And technically the photographer still has control of the images when they don't pay. So you 100% agree with something he didn't say !
Posted 1 Dec 2013
MikeBee
Photographer
MikeBee
stolenfaces
He isn't talking about 'control' he's talking about 'suggesting' particular shots in a casting. And technically the photographer still has control of the images when they don't pay. So you 100% agree with something he didn't say ! I agree with what's being said.. then I added my own comments. Some people!
Posted 1 Dec 2013
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
bdfoto

Sorry everyone ... no I'm not sorry at all ...  I just have to have a moan this morning about the number of models who post castings asking the photographer to pay them, because they want specific images for their portfolio.



What, do you think their casting calls are addressing you as an individual?

bdfoto

Models - if you want images for your profile then please be prepared to pay for:
  • My shooting time,
  • My studio time,
  • My heating bill,
  • My equipment and public liability insurance
  • My equipment maintenance
  • My travel time, and most of all
  • My knowledge of this industry learned over thirty years.
None of those costs are any business of the model and it is an impertinence to burden the model with knowledge of them, far less expect the model to be involved in the payment or budgeting of those things.

bdfoto

I am, no doubt, not the best photographer here, but please, models, if you want something to enhance your portfolio, then be prepared to pay for it, or at the very least offer collaboration that makes it worth the photographer's time..


Assuminmg your one of the minority of photogrtaphers whose clients include models, the model is paying for photographic services (and mostl likely IP rights of some type, ranging perhaps from a usage licence of some kind all the way to copyright assignment). She is not bankrolling your internal busines costs.

Posted 1 Dec 2013
Edited by skymouse 1 Dec 2013
bdfoto
Photographer
bdfoto
skymouse

None of those costs are any business of the model and it is an impertinence to burden the model with knowledge of them, far less expect the model to be involved in the payment or budgeting of those things.


@skymouse I think you are missing my point.  (As a corollary iff you fill in your tax return yourself, you pay for the work by not getting an income while you do it. If you pay a accountant to do it for you, you pay a fee for that person to do it, but you may find they save you tax.  Would you ask an accountat to do the work for nothing? 

skymouse

Assuminmg your one of the minority of photogrtaphers whose clients include models, the model is paying for photographic services (and mostl likely IP rights of some type, ranging perhaps from a usage licence of some kind all the way to copyright assignment). She is not bankrolling your internal busines costs.



@skymouse - it's not a case of bankrolling and yes I do have models and dancers who are clients.  Any business has to make a profit or it is not a business, therefore everyone who pays me a fee pays a proportion of my fixed costs - studio rent, insurance, etc, and ALL of the variable costs applicable to that shoot.


Posted 1 Dec 2013
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Perhaps models are better off sticking to working hith amateurs shooting for a hobby, who often not only pay models well but are often also willing to give them quality images from the shoot. Far less agro than working with pros it seems and also seemingly a better deal for them.

Posted 1 Dec 2013
bdfoto
Photographer
bdfoto
RedChecker

Perhaps models are better off sticking to working hith amateurs shooting for a hobby, who often not only pay models well but are often also willing to give them quality images from the shoot. Far less agro than working with pros it seems and also seemingly a better deal for them.


EVERY model with whom I work - paid, collaboration, TF, paying me - gets a complete set of watermarked proofs at standard definition, and I ALWAYS provide a minimum dozen images at standard definition for online use, and high definition for printing.  The difference is that when the client is paying me I do not add my logo and copyright mark unless the client has given permission within the contract between us.



Posted 1 Dec 2013
Edited by bdfoto 1 Dec 2013
Socialdisaster
Photographer
Socialdisaster
bdfoto
EVERY model with whom I work - paid, collaboration, TF, paying me - gets a complete set of watermarked proofs at standard definition, and I ALWAYS provide a minimum dozen images at standard definition for online use, and high definition for printing.  
Yeah and it's people like you doing that, who raise the expectations of model as to what they do and don't get from shoots, making the rest of our lives hard just so you can be "nice".
Posted 1 Dec 2013
mph
Photographer
mph
[qt][author]Socialdisaster[/author] Yeah and it's people like you doing that, who raise the expectations of model as to what they do and don't get from shoots, making the rest of our lives hard just so you can be "nice". [/qt] Not really a problem if you are an amateur - it's not "hard" to be "nice" and for professionals, the massively higher standard of their work means they won't have a problem justifying their stance.........................
Posted 2 Dec 2013
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
smiley
Posted 2 Dec 2013
Gerry99111
Photographer
Gerry99111
bdfoto

EVERY model with whom I work - paid, collaboration, TF, paying me - gets a complete set of watermarked proofs at standard definition, and I ALWAYS provide a minimum dozen images at standard definition for online use, and high definition for printing.  The difference is that when the client is paying me I do not add my logo and copyright mark unless the client has given permission within the contract between us.





How bizzare, you put up a thread complaining that models look to be paid for their portfolio development and then you say that on paid shoots, you give models images they can use in their portfolio with a watermark.

The only difference then is if they pay you instead of you paying them, they get images without your logo included.

It appears you are already giving them what you are complaining about so I am not sure what the issue is.

Posted 2 Dec 2013
bdfoto
Photographer
bdfoto
Gerry99111

How bizzare, you put up a thread complaining that models look to be paid for their portfolio development and then you say that on paid shoots, you give models images they can use in their portfolio with a watermark.

The only difference then is if they pay you instead of you paying them, they get images without your logo included.

It appears you are already giving them what you are complaining about so I am not sure what the issue is.



This is a matter of networking and SEO.  The more people wtih whom I have worked who link to me and vice-versa, the better it is for us both.
Posted 2 Dec 2013
MikeBee
Photographer
MikeBee
When in a hole never keep digging...
Posted 2 Dec 2013
Plymjack
Photographer
Plymjack
stolenfaces

 What a waste of a perfectly good casting system if models just post castings that don't interest you!!



LOL.....and so very true...
Posted 2 Dec 2013
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