Controversial Subject

Controversial Subject

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134 posts
27 July 2013
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
As far as I'm concerned, the agent who sent this poor girl to this guy in the knowledge of what he was like and without warning her is guilty of conspiracy to rape.

Good for you for bringing this issue to other's attention Iain - if only one aspiring model reads it and avoids the guy then that's a great result. As usual, your post was articulately written and reasoned - you are a credit to the modelling and photographic industry.
Posted 27 July 2013
Edited by SMILESPHOTO 27 July 2013
mph
Photographer
mph
There has probably never been a better time to make a complaint - the profile of such cases is extremely high at the moment following the recent court cases and indeed those still to be heard. Be a brave police force who did not take a complaint seriously now. Still very difficult though, I accept.

The Moorov doctrine probably only applies in Scotland

Posted 27 July 2013
Edited by mph 27 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
mph
There has probably never been a better time to make a complaint - the profile of such cases is extremely high at the moment following the recent court cases and indeed those still to be heard. Be a brave police force who did not take a complaint seriously now. Still very difficult though, I accept. The Moorov doctrine probably only applies in Scotland
The Moorov Doctrine per se is applicable by name in Scots law as it refers to a stated case and was the first conviction based on corroborative evidence by victims of a common assailant occurring at different times, although each assault was uncoroborated, it was held the similarity of the testimony from each victim was corroboration in itself. As far as I'm aware the principle applies equally in England and other parts of the UK and convictions have been secured on this basis.
Posted 27 July 2013
Plymjack
Photographer
Plymjack
I too would support you in this and offer my £100. It would be a very small price to pay.

You are correct that most people in "the industry" and many of us who are on the fringes know of the person you highlight - and yes everyone in the industry should protect models from such predators.

Well done for your stance.

Posted 27 July 2013
ChrisVS
Photographer
ChrisVS
GrimeAndGlamour

Iain, would you mind if I linked your blogpost on my Facebook page? We have a 'photographer' up here is one step away from this and I would hope at least one model would read it and take the possibilities on board. Thank you in advance.


Well.... I think you're being very brave. So I have posted it on my Facebook page. Hopefully if enough models come forward, the Police will have to take action.


Posted 27 July 2013
Aesthetique
Photographer
Aesthetique
Well done Iain. I know of one model who had an apalling experience at the hands of this depraved individual. I am sure if there was a Moorov Doctrine case put together, she would volunteer her evidence.

Posted 27 July 2013
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
As you say his behaviour is well known and many models now shoot for the named company through a female photographer in Essex.

Over the years I've heard many stories of bad experiences with this company but I can't say for sure if they're true. I've heard of models who have gone to the police about the treatment they've received and the police have done nothing. It appears that the fact he shoots adult content means the police think some of what they're told could just be annoyed models and thus they don't take the stories seriously. If it was any other kind of photography similar reports would be resulting in at least a visit from the police. Sadly the police don't seem interested in taking any action.

I've heard of "odd things" happening from at least 3 models.

Posted 27 July 2013
Edited by HowardJ 27 July 2013
JohnB
Photographer
JohnB
The whole scenario is very sad. Even I ( a pure, occasional amateur on the fringes) have heard rumours about this company over the years.

Posted 28 July 2013
Edited by JohnB 28 July 2013
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
It's almost like photography is being used as a cover.

Posted 28 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
HowardJ
As you say his behaviour is well known and many models now shoot for the named company through a female photographer in Essex. Over the years I've heard many stories of bad experiences with this company but I can't say for sure if they're true. I've heard of models who have gone to the police about the treatment they've received and the police have done nothing. It appears that the fact he shoots adult content means the police think some of what they're told could just be annoyed models and thus they don't take the stories seriously. If it was any other kind of photography similar reports would be resulting in at least a visit from the police. Sadly the police don't seem interested in taking any action. I've heard of "odd things" happening from at least 3 models.
I'm not sure where I stand on the role of the lady you mention. I know her she is lovely and any model working with her is entirely safe. There are two views which could be taken. 1. She is supporting a particular business which I would love to see cease trading and in a way condoning particular behaviour within the business. 2. She is providing models with a safe environment in which to shoot for a particular company. The same models may have been tempted by the money and subjected themselves to potential assault if she was not acting on behalf of a particular company. I tend to lean towards No.2 although it doesn't sit very comfortably. If you consider the circumstances of assaults within the environment we are talking about you can understand to an extent why the Police are sceptical and apparantly reluctant to act, but you would think if a victim complained about an individual with a particular previous conviction they might be inclined to act. Although it appears not to be the case.
Posted 28 July 2013
Edited by IainT 28 July 2013
PaulManuell
Photographer
PaulManuell
Hello Iain, I've not read all the replies on this thread but will do so when I've got a bit more time. I have, though, read your blog that you provided the link to, and all I can say is the poor girl. The part where you said she broke down on the platform on the way home was particularly heart wrenching. I really hope this incident doesn't affect her for the rest of her life and that those concerned in allowing this to happen and carrying out the rape get everything that's coming to them. And then some.

Posted 28 July 2013
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
IainT
If you consider the circumstances of assaults within the environment we are talking about you can understand to an extent why the Police are sceptical and apparantly reluctant to act, but you would think if a victim complained about an individual with a particular previous conviction they might be inclined to act. Although it appears not to be the case.
You would, but I heard of one experienced model who did go to police after a shoot with the named individual and she was sent away. Maybe the police expect it to be normal behaviour for adult shoots? The truth is it's very much the exception. The majority of adult shoots are very professional. Sometimes I find it hard to believe some of the stories I've heard, but they've usually involved newbie models doing their first shoots and didn't know what to expect. Someone tries something on and the model seems so shocked or unsure of herself that things like the scenario you've described happen.
Posted 28 July 2013
photostore
Photographer
photostore
I find it hard to believe a female photographer or any female knowing his background would support his business in any form what so ever ! including models. I guess like everything else where money is involved, morals along with ones own or others safety go out the window To Models that have worked with him ! I ask, Why Why Why ?
Posted 28 July 2013
JeromeRazoir
Photographer
JeromeRazoir
IainT

You are correct in the first line Thank you for your support, but I suspect your £100 is safe.


I suspect mine is as well but it is there if you need it.

Posted 28 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
photostore
I find it hard to believe a female photographer or any female knowing his background would support his business in any form what so ever ! including models. I guess like everything else where money is involved, morals along with ones own or others safety go out the window To Models that have worked with him ! I ask, Why Why Why ?
To be fair, many people in the industry, knowing an individuals background continue to support them. There are models who have been assaulted on the first occassion by a particular notorious individual and have gone back several times after and have taken his money in the knowledge that because they had gained experience and ascertiveness they were safe. And bare in mind 40 years is a long time in the business and an individual may build up as much good will as bad will in that time. Unfortunately, sometimes things are far from straightforward or black and white and certain models own actions jeprodise the chances of a conviction in other cases where its richly deserved. The Lady photographer in question may, reasonably, take the view that by working extensivelly for a known offender, she is keeping vulnerable models away from a particular individual, and it would be difficult to argue with her on that view as its been proved time and time again over a 40 year period that a particular offender always finds ingenious ways of finding models and keeping his very profitable million pound plus business alive.
Posted 28 July 2013
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