Abu Qatada---time is nearly up

Abu Qatada---time is nearly up

35 posts
2 July 2013
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
If he was such a dangerous person you would think it wouldn't have been too difficult (and have been significantly cheaper) to charge him and convict him of something in this country.

If everyone knows how terrible a person he was, surely we must ask how it is that the security services have failed to find something to charge him with ? Rather than moaning that The European Court of Human Rights unreasonably upheld his human rights, it would be more useful to question the competence of the security services who seem to be too busy snooping on everyone's phonecalls, e-mails, website visits etc. to nail this bad guy.

So who will be your new hate figure? I'm sure the Daily Mail has a few lined up for you.


Posted 8 July 2013
Sdeve
Photographer
Sdeve
stolenfaces
If he was such a dangerous person you would think it wouldn't have been too difficult (and have been significantly cheaper) to charge him and convict him of something in this country. If everyone knows how terrible a person he was, surely we must ask how it is that the security services have failed to find something to charge him with ? Rather than moaning that The European Court of Human Rights unreasonably upheld his human rights, it would be more useful to question the competence of the security services who seem to be too busy snooping on everyone's phonecalls, e-mails, website visits etc. to nail this bad guy. So who will be your new hate figure? I'm sure the Daily Mail has a few lined up for you.
The problem with prosecuting him in this country is that the evidence against him appears to have been obtained by authorised covert surveillance and phone taps. By policy in this country such evidence is not used in trials, and so there is insufficient evidence to prosecute him not withstanding the alleged existence of evidence aplenty. Your hate figure is presumably the Daily Mail. How easy it is for people to merely say that if it's in the Daily Mail it must be wrong. It saves having to think about such issues, with all the pain that involves (for some).
Posted 8 July 2013
Andy_B
Photographer
Andy_B
stolenfaces

If he was such a dangerous person you would think it wouldn't have been too difficult (and have been significantly cheaper) to charge him and convict him of something in this country. If everyone knows how terrible a person he was, surely we must ask how it is that the security services have failed to find something to charge him with ? Rather than moaning that The European Court of Human Rights unreasonably upheld his human rights, it would be more useful to question the competence of the security services who seem to be too busy snooping on everyone's phonecalls, e-mails, website visits etc. to nail this bad guy. So who will be your new hate figure? I'm sure the Daily Mail has a few lined up for you.


Why is the left so blinkered to Islamic extremism?

 

A report calls out the left for embracing fundamentalists



Posted 8 July 2013
Sdeve
Photographer
Sdeve
Andy_B
Why is the left so blinkered to Islamic extremism? A report calls out the left for embracing fundamentalists
The problem, in the West at least, with Islamic Extremism is not the extremists. It's those majority of Muslims who remain silent whenever some new outrage is perpetrated or worse, praise the extremists with faint damns, following every condemnation with a 'but you must understand' or some such drivel. That and too many people who think that Islam is just another religion, a bit like some other sect of Christianity or some such. It isn't.
Posted 8 July 2013
Andy_B
Photographer
Andy_B
Sdeve

The problem, in the West at least, with Islamic Extremism is not the extremists. It's those majority of Muslims who remain silent whenever some new outrage is perpetrated or worse, praise the extremists with faint damns, following every condemnation with a 'but you must understand' or some such drivel. That and too many people who think that Islam is just another religion, a bit like some other sect of Christianity or some such. It isn't.


Well, there are multiple problems... but this issue of the Left 'protecting' Islamofascism is a serious one. Left wingers have become extremely accomplished at shutting down debate by playing the PC/Race card - and the result of this is that the debate moves away from the moderate centre ground and to the fringes - the Islamofascists vs the EDL.
Posted 9 July 2013
Sdeve
Photographer
Sdeve
Andy_B
Well, there are multiple problems... but this issue of the Left 'protecting' Islamofascism is a serious one. Left wingers have become extremely accomplished at shutting down debate by playing the PC/Race card - and the result of this is that the debate moves away from the moderate centre ground and to the fringes - the Islamofascists vs the EDL.
I agree very much with you there. The trouble is, with the insistence of claiming the 'moderate centre ground' is that moderate solutions often fail to address radical problems. Add to that the political practicalities (What chance of election in Bradford for a politician who condemns Islam?) and the failures soon swarm to surrender.
Posted 9 July 2013
jivago
Photographer
jivago
Andy_B

Why is the left so blinkered to Islamic extremism?

 

A report calls out the left for embracing fundamentalists






I do agree with you on lack of will in addressing religion! -  But in the interests of balance, you will of course also acknowledge, the connivance of the Right Wing with the intrerests of Big Corporations -  Sometimes as inimicable to the interests of the general population, as terrorists have been (BP/Union Carbide/Occidental Petroleum/Enron/News Corporation/Britsh American Tobacco/the Banks/NHS privatisation blah blah..............).

Despite your opportunistic sophistry - I think everyone can see the Conservatives (as ever) remain the 'Political Wing of the 'Big Corporates' 

Cancer stick anyone?..

"Yet despite public support and the medical evidence that plain packaging would save lives, David Cameron has put the interest of his chums in big business above British public health
Posted 9 July 2013
DorsetHammer
Photographer
DorsetHammer
jivago

 But in the interests of balance, 


Enter the strawman.
Posted 10 July 2013
Sdeve
Photographer
Sdeve
jivago
I do agree with you on lack of will in addressing religion! -  But in the interests of balance, you will of course also acknowledge, the connivance of the Right Wing with the intrerests of Big Corporations -  Sometimes as inimicable to the interests of the general population, as terrorists have been (BP/Union Carbide/Occidental Petroleum/Enron/News Corporation/Britsh American Tobacco/the Banks/NHS privatisation blah blah..............). Despite your opportunistic sophistry - I think everyone can see the Conservatives (as ever) remain the 'Political Wing of the 'Big Corporates'  Cancer stick anyone?.. "Yet despite public support and the medical evidence that plain packaging would save lives, David Cameron has put the interest of his chums in big business above British public health" 
Hmmm.... interesting, if almost completely irrelevant. We are discussing apples, and you bring oranges into the debate. Of course, you may be right in what you say, but I believe it's been a while since anyone was beheaded in this country by a bank manager, or stoned to death on the forecourt of a petrol station. And you make much of tobacco issues. Well, I gave up smoking, as have many other people. Try giving up Islam and you are under a death sentence, ordered by the very literal word of God. A word about plain packaging of tobacco products. The statistics about the health improvement come from it's supporters, and do not take into account the fact that plain packaging and under the counter sales make it ridiculously easy to sell counterfeit tobacco products, many of which are as lethal as inhaling asbestos. The future bill to the NHS because of counterfeit tobacco products will dwarf that at present in 20 years time. In any event, I'd rather deal with greed, which I can at least understand, than blind faith fanaticism which is beyond understanding.
Posted 10 July 2013
jivago
Photographer
jivago
DorsetHammer

Enter the strawman.


No. Neither a falacy, nor false witness - That the Tories are well paid by some Nasty Corporations is a FACT.

Posted 10 July 2013
jivago
Photographer
jivago
Sdeve

Hmmm.... interesting, if almost completely irrelevant. We are discussing apples, and you bring oranges into the debate. Of course, you may be right in what you say, but I believe it's been a while since anyone was beheaded in this country by a bank manager, or stoned to death on the forecourt of a petrol station. And you make much of tobacco issues. Well, I gave up smoking, as have many other people. Try giving up Islam and you are under a death sentence, ordered by the very literal word of God. A word about plain packaging of tobacco products. The statistics about the health improvement come from it's supporters, and do not take into account the fact that plain packaging and under the counter sales make it ridiculously easy to sell counterfeit tobacco products, many of which are as lethal as inhaling asbestos. The future bill to the NHS because of counterfeit tobacco products will dwarf that at present in 20 years time. In any event, I'd rather deal with greed, which I can at least understand, than blind faith fanaticism which is beyond understanding.


I am no defender of supersition!

I can't comprehend the likes of Quatada either. In rejoinder to an opportunistic aside at Labour, it was very easy for me to refer to the Conservatives very well documeted links to some very questionable Corporations!!!!

...And I wonder if the work of such Corporations, does not actually make the damage Quatada causes look trivial?

Posted 10 July 2013
Sdeve
Photographer
Sdeve
jivago
No. Neither a falacy, nor false witness - That the Tories are well paid by some Nasty Corporations is a FACT.
A standard leftist defence. Someone points out a bad man and the 'defence' is to point at another bad man and say 'concentrate on him'. Empty, vapid, pointless.
Posted 10 July 2013
jivago
Photographer
jivago
Sdeve

A standard leftist defence. Someone points out a bad man and the 'defence' is to point at another bad man and say 'concentrate on him'. Empty, vapid, pointless.


Vapid Yes - If only the Right Wing 'Alf Garnet's' on this site would put a sock in it!

Posted 10 July 2013
Sdeve
Photographer
Sdeve
jivago
Vapid Yes - If only the Right Wing 'Alf Garnet's' on this site would put a sock in it!
The usual leftist outrage at someone being allowed to express an opinion contrary to their own. And an opportunity to point at another bad man. Any chance at all that you will address the original subject?
Posted 10 July 2013
DorsetHammer
Photographer
DorsetHammer
Sdeve

A standard leftist defence. Someone points out a bad man and the 'defence' is to point at another bad man and say 'concentrate on him'. Empty, vapid, pointless.


Unfortunately it's now the default positon of and on the left, intellectual dwarfism of the worst kind.

Posted 10 July 2013
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