scottish referendum

scottish referendum

257 posts
14 Sep 2014
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
And that, for me, is that This argument has no end and can only get nastier the longer it goes on.
Posted 29 Sep 2014
Jackass

Profilepictures, not for the first time you're talking bunkum in my opinion. There was absolutely no inference in anything I have said that alludes to the Scots as junior partners. Better together means exactly that, we're ALL better together. Elements of the Yes voters have stated openly, before the referendum and after, that a No vote is unacceptable - how patronising is that? I have Scottish relatives, I lived in Scotland for 7 years, I have seen first hand the intimidation dealt out to the No voters by the lunatic fringe of the Yes voters. My ex brother in law was assaulted in the run up to the referendum because he said he would vote No. UKIP have nothing to do with this debate, the Scottish question has been on the political table for decades now, long before UKIP existed - and how can you say that 1.7 million Scots' (Salmond's figures) desire for independence have been "dismissed" when they've just had a full referendum on the issue resulting in 28 out of the 32 areas voting NO and with a sizeable majority? Why shouldn't the English have a say? By your own logic, denying the English a say in their own future after seeing the Scots have had theirs IS being dismissive. There is a simmering resentment south of the border that the Scots are taking too much. Ignoring it won't make it go away, it will only help swell UKIP even more as we've seen with the SNP when there's a perceived sense of injustice. The answer is to see if the perceived sense of injustice is justified then put it right, it's NOT the answer to rip the UK apart because a very small minority want it. We are the UK, one nation comprising of several countries, but still one nation, so intertwined that separation would severely damage ALL parties concerned. If the Scottish Yes voters have the right to pursue their ideals of freedom in their way, then the vast majority of the UK population has the right to defend their ideals their way too. The unpalatable truth for the Yes voters is that they can't even command a majority in their own backyard, yet the 1.7 million will do all they can to force their will on the 60 million. I would be glad if we still had the Union, but the Yes voters will use whatever means to hand - democratic or not - to make sure that the Union ceases to exist, and as a UK citizen I have the right to voice an opinion.


Did you also see a small and shameful minority of the "better together" fans "celebrating" on Friday evening in George Square?
Where they were burning saltires and terrorizing anybody they came into contact with - shouting abuse and generally being a bloody embarassment to not only the yes supporters in Scotland but the majority of the no fans also seen how disgusting they were. I would take a couple of "silly insults" over being screamed at and physically kicked in the street? The media reporting on that event was shocking - so I'm sure what you read was "yes and no campaigners fighting" -The reality is very very different. 

You mention "simmering resentment" - the only person/people who I have seen being insulting and appearing rattled on here is people from South of the border. It would be easy for me to make a sweeping statement based on a few in this thread but I'm not an idiot and I don't blame you/them for thinking the way you do - its whats being fed to you. I don't think its particurlarly plesant thought. 

"Whatever means to hand - democratic or not" - you did really see the same campaigns that we did up here didn't you? frankly it was full of bullshit (i imagine both had their sprinkling of it) but one team deffinately pulled out all the stops in the past couple of weeks, I'm surprised we weren't told that all our children would be lined up and killed if we voted yes... Then again yes voters didn't like their children much anyway haha "if you love your children vote no" was one of the funny slogans I seen.

You do have a right to voice an opinion but you appear to be bitter and angry, earlier you said you didn't much care.. So what is all this for? just a chance to pretend you know what you are talking about and to insult a few people? - being a dickhead (and thats because of your actions not because of where you stay) doesn't do ANYTHING positive for anybody. You didn't get a vote? well complain to your goverment about it. 

Posted 29 Sep 2014
Edited by Chrissie_Red 29 Sep 2014
click_gotcha
Photographer
click_gotcha
RedChecker

It looks like they'll get DevoMax as a result of this close draw (basically governing themselves using our money), so to suggest they're not being given oportunity is short sighted and just because a particular option for change is open to you... doesn't mean the best course of action is to grab it (better the devil you know & all that jazz)


Devo Max is not on the table, never has been.  Devo Max is basically keeping all revenue raised in Scotland in Scotland and sending a portion down to Westminster for defence, foreign polict, etc.  Everything else would be controlled by Holyrood.  That's not ging to happen.

And please stop perpetuating the myth that we in Scotland are subsidised by English taxpayers because it's simply not true.


Posted 29 Sep 2014
davidhibberd
Photographer
davidhibberd
click_gotcha


And please stop perpetuating the myth that we in Scotland are subsidised by English taxpayers because it's simply not true.




Correct

Posted 30 Sep 2014
photostore
Photographer
photostore
well seeing as i'm th OP i better get back in there...it's strange given that WE had the vote, WE were made all the hollow promises which the majority bought into (I ) lost the vote, and all i hear on the news daily is talk of extra powers for ENGLAND never a mention since the day after the vote, of actually coming up with or making good on the promises made........****ed over by a westminster government yet again, you know what ? we dont deserve anything else ! we must be a right backward bunch of **** wits to continually buy into this shite.
Posted 30 Sep 2014
Edited by photostore 30 Sep 2014
CSD_Images
Photographer
CSD_Images
I'll leave this here...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/indyref-campaign-groups-invited-to-contribute-to-lord-smiths-devolution-c.1412069118

Stop falling for the 45's propaganda. The devolved powers whatever they may be is so far on track. The changes can't and won't be changed overnight nor was they promised to be.

Ignoring English views is akin to watch the fire outside your house. There is a lot of resentment in the Rest of the UK about how 'special' Scotland is, that needs to be defused.

Posted 1 Oct 2014
CSD_Images

I'll leave this here... http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/indyref-campaign-groups-invited-to-contribute-to-lord-smiths-devolution-c.1412069118 Stop falling for the 45's propaganda. The devolved powers whatever they may be is so far on track. The changes can't and won't be changed overnight nor was they promised to be. Ignoring English views is akin to watch the fire outside your house. There is a lot of resentment in the Rest of the UK about how 'special' Scotland is, that needs to be defused.


How come its always the newspaper you have to pay to read online that comes out with the "whoppers" of information?
Shame only people who pay their sub can access it.

I have to be honest - if people are feeling resentment then thats their problem to deal with, I'm not going to lay down and let a bunch of twits insult me.

Posted 1 Oct 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
One thing that's occurred to me is that while the Scots and the North of England moan about how badly done to they are, one thing is always constant.... they have always voted for left-wing parties. Perhaps if they took the "If you can't beat them, join them" attitude, swallowed their pride and voted for the Tories then their fortunes may turn around, afterall business generally prefers Tory policy and if you have swathes of Tory voters in an area then you're more likely to invest in that area.

Just a thought.

Posted 1 Oct 2014
IainT
Photographer
IainT
CSD_Images
I'll leave this here... http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/indyref-campaign-groups-invited-to-contribute-to-lord-smiths-devolution-c.1412069118 Stop falling for the 45's propaganda. The devolved powers whatever they may be is so far on track. The changes can't and won't be changed overnight nor was they promised to be. Ignoring English views is akin to watch the fire outside your house. There is a lot of resentment in the Rest of the UK about how 'special' Scotland is, that needs to be defused.
I agree that having a circumspect view is always better and looking at the actual facts rather than what the media want you to believe are the facts is what the sensible people do. However, English resentment was not so much the problem as English apathy and English ignorance (I'm not saying English people are ignorant, just generally ignorant about Scotland in the way the average American is ignorant about the UK) Down here people swallow what the media tell them because the majority no nothing about Scotland. Before this debate, a substancial number of English people thought Scotland was an Independant country and not part of the UK anyway. And most couldn't care less about the referendum. Most people down here still couldn't care and are not interested. There is some resentment unsurprisingly, but what is surprising is the lack of resentment. If I were English and believed a fraction of the nonsense printed down here, I would be making a fuss to see the back of the Scots ASAP. Maybe the average Englishman/woman understands more than they are letting on and just wants the whole thing to go away.
Posted 1 Oct 2014
Edited by IainT 1 Oct 2014
jivago
Photographer
jivago
RedChecker

One thing that's occurred to me is that while the Scots and the North of England moan about how badly done to they are, one thing is always constant.... they have always voted for left-wing parties. Perhaps if they took the "If you can't beat them, join them" attitude, swallowed their pride and voted for the Tories then their fortunes may turn around, afterall business generally prefers Tory policy and if you have swathes of Tory voters in an area then you're more likely to invest in that area. Just a thought.


In future try to mediate deeply. Breath deeply Ahhhhhhhh! -  And feel the Alpha waves flow through your (miniture) occipital lobe #000000">and just don't think of anything at all - In case you make a tit of yourself once again!

Posted 1 Oct 2014
mph
Photographer
mph
jivago
In future try to mediate deeply. Breath deeply Ahhhhhhhh! -  And feel the Alpha waves flow through your (miniture) occipital lobe and just don't think of anything at all - In case you make a tit of yourself once again!
I do like the ability to be condescending, coupled with the inability to spell correctly!
Posted 2 Oct 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
mph

I do like the ability to be condescending, coupled with the inability to spell correctly!


He's only made the spelling mistakes because he's shaking with rage that I've hit the nail on the head (yet again)
Posted 2 Oct 2014
RedChecker

He's only made the spelling mistakes because he's shaking with rage that I've hit the nail on the head (yet again)


But you haven't - you were talking f%cking nonsense!

Posted 2 Oct 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Chrissie_Red

But you haven't - you were talking f%cking nonsense!



Like I said, it was just a thought.  But I do find it interesting that the areas of the country (UK) that moan the most about their lot in life are staunch socialist supporting areas, it would be interesting to see if change could be brought about if you could somehow change the local mindset.  It would be an impossible task but would be interesting none the less.
Posted 2 Oct 2014
marlhamphoto
Photographer
marlhamphoto
IainT

There is some resentment unsurprisingly, but what is surprising is the lack of resentment. If I were English and believed a fraction of the nonsense printed down here, I would be making a fuss to see the back of the Scots ASAP. Maybe the average Englishman/woman understands more than they are letting on and just wants the whole thing to go away.

This excerpt illustrates clearly peoples' blind naivety about what the referendum has actually brought about. Overt resentment is not the issue - forget it, it's irrelevant in the overall scheme of things. What's relevant and what will eventually start to bite are the changes already happening in the commercial and economic world brought about by the continuing uncertainties about Scotland. Politics of any flavour will have little substantive effect on what's already begun to happen.

Sadly a lack of overt resentment on the ground is far from being an indicator that things are going to sort themselves out with no lasting adverse economic and social impact for Scotland.
Posted 2 Oct 2014
Edited by marlhamphoto 2 Oct 2014
To reply to this thread you must be a member. Click here to join