scottish referendum

scottish referendum

257 posts
14 Sep 2014
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
And as for Salmond's argument that Scotland is being forced to endure a Conservative government - let's not forget the years of financial mismanagement inflicted on England that a Scottish backed Labour administration caused - led primarily by Scottish MP's enforcing THEIR minority government on the UK. Conveniently never mentioned.

Posted 28 Sep 2014
click_gotcha
Photographer
click_gotcha
Jackass

And as for Salmond's argument that Scotland is being forced to endure a Conservative government - let's not forget the years of financial mismanagement inflicted on England that a Scottish backed Labour administration caused - led primarily by Scottish MP's enforcing THEIR minority government on the UK. Conveniently never mentioned.


What a load of nonsense.

Posted 28 Sep 2014
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
How you can call it nonsense is typical of the Scottish Yes psyche.

"New" Labour achieved power in 1997 due to the number of seats it won in Scotland, without those seats, the Conservatives would have had a small working majority. "New" Labour was led by Scots in the main, and what an unholy mess they created, and it didn't seem to worry the Scottish "New" Labour MP's that the gap between rich and poor actually widened in their years of power. Who raided the pension pot in the late 90's? Who sold off much of our gold reserves at knock down prices in the 90's? Who created unprecedented taxation and blew the lot, ensuring there was no reserves for the rainy day that eventually came? Tell you what, it wasn't the English.

The biggest load of nonsense is that there are a number of Scots who think they are entitled to take ever more out when person per person they already take more than the Welsh, Northern Irish or English, and the notion that they put more in than anyone else is laughable.

The biggest legacy that Salmond and his one-trick-pony SNP has given the UK is divisiveness, his antics have polarised a lot of people's thinking both sides of the border and created only strife. The shame is that England and Scotland are natural allies in the modern world, and the idea that either country would be better off without the other is a nonsense.

Posted 28 Sep 2014
click_gotcha
Photographer
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Jackass

How you can call it nonsense is typical of the Scottish Yes psyche. "New" Labour achieved power in 1997 due to the number of seats it won in Scotland, without those seats, the Conservatives would have had a small working majority. .


Simply not true, without Scottish MPs New Labour would still have had a majority.

Posted 28 Sep 2014
Jackass

 and the idea that either country would be better off without the other is a nonsense.




*smacks head off desk*

Posted 28 Sep 2014
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Jackass
The biggest load of nonsense is that there are a number of Scots who think they are entitled to take ever more out when person per person they already take more than the Welsh, Northern Irish or English, and the notion that they put more in than anyone else is laughable.
If you had a single iota of common sense you would realise the sheer stupidy of this particular argument. England, small country, huge pupulation, limited resources. Scotland, large country relative to its small population. Large resources...even without oil and gas, scotland is self sufficient in sustainable electricity. It has some of the best fishing grounds in europe, best agricultural produce and a history of technology and innovation. It may well be accurate to say the Scots have a higher spend per person than anyone in the UK outside London,. There are large parts of Scotland where the delivery of services costs more than most parts of the UK...obviously! But to say Scotland do not contribute a disproportionate amount to the UK economy flies in the face of common sense. Why are the UK so keen to keep Scotland in the UK? For goodness sake think about it before writing nonsense.
Posted 28 Sep 2014
Edited by IainT 28 Sep 2014
pompeytog
Photographer
pompeytog
Guys, it's over. Scotland had the chance to leave the union and chose by a significant majority not to do so. Can we now finish with all the, poor Scots subsidise England, English bastards rip off the jocks etc. I'm absolutely sure that some of those no voters who now wish they voted yes are a figment of the yes voters imaginations, (if only another few had voted yes, think what could have happened). Surely with the amount of time given for this referendum, not too many changed their mind at the last minute, then suddenly wished they hadn't a couple of days later. From most of the people I've spoken to over recent months, most couldn't give a stuff whether Scotland stayed or went on their own,( and a lot of those were living in Scotland) it's only the politicians who care. We are still the "United Kingdom', like it or lump it that's what we are and will probably stay that way for a long time to come.
Posted 28 Sep 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
pompeytog

Guys, it's over. Scotland had the chance to leave the union and chose by a significant majority not to do so.


It will never be over until the SNP and its supporters get independence, you only have to to see the rhetoric on SNP and various posts on social networking sites by its supporters to realise they will not relent, they even want another referendum within five years allegedly.  Democratic results do not matter to them it seems, and their sheer bloody-mindedness will unfortunately prevail like a mouthy child always getting its own way.
 
Posted 28 Sep 2014
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
Yes, and meantime the UK suffers as a consequence. Scotland can do as it pleases, but when it affects the rest of us, the rest of us should also be given a say. THAT would be democracy.

Posted 28 Sep 2014
click_gotcha
Photographer
click_gotcha
Jackass

Yes, and meantime the UK suffers as a consequence. Scotland can do as it pleases, but when it affects the rest of us, the rest of us should also be given a say. THAT would be democracy.


The US presidentiall elections will affect almost everyone on the planet but we don't get a vote.  It would have been absurd to give everyone in the UK a vote in the Scottish independence referendum.   Do you want the people of France and Germany to get a vote in the EU in/out referendum that the Tories are proposing?

Posted 28 Sep 2014
Jackass

Yes, and meantime the UK suffers as a consequence. Scotland can do as it pleases, but when it affects the rest of us, the rest of us should also be given a say. THAT would be democracy.



I sincerely do hope you get a "say" - if thats the case please please vote to get rid of us mouthy whining buggers - I beg you!
Posted 28 Sep 2014
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
Where are the political ties between the US and the UK? Or France, Germany, the EU?

As for mouthy whining buggers - embellishment of someone's statement is hardly a strong argument.

Go your own way, as I say, I don't care either way. Riding roughshod over the majority of Scotland's population by insisting on enough referendums to get your own way may bring you the "freedom" you crave, but it won't bring you peace.

Posted 28 Sep 2014
profilepictures
Photographer
profilepictures
I'm embarrassed generally but the reactions this debate has provoked, mostly the veiled insulted and patronising stance adopted by those who suggest 'better together' translates to 'know your place Scots, you're a junior partner' .

On the back of the referendum we're seeing ukip swelling obscenely and suggestions of English independence whilst dismissing over 2 million Scots wishes for that same state.

As for referenda and democracy, however many times a question is asked, those certain of their response will offer it - its really not demonstrable that there will be constant frequent re-runs or that it would change anyone's minds anyway.

I'm still glad to have a union, and sad there wasn't the opportunity for a good friend to better their self.

Posted 29 Sep 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
profilepictures

I'm still glad to have a union, and sad there wasn't the opportunity for a good friend to better their self.


It looks like they'll get DevoMax as a result of this close draw (basically governing themselves using our money), so to suggest they're not being given oportunity is short sighted and just because a particular option for change is open to you... doesn't mean the best course of action is to grab it (better the devil you know & all that jazz)
Posted 29 Sep 2014
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
Profilepictures, not for the first time you're talking bunkum in my opinion.

There was absolutely no inference in anything I have said that alludes to the Scots as junior partners. Better together means exactly that, we're ALL better together. Elements of the Yes voters have stated openly, before the referendum and after, that a No vote is unacceptable - how patronising is that?

I have Scottish relatives, I lived in Scotland for 7 years, I have seen first hand the intimidation dealt out to the No voters by the lunatic fringe of the Yes voters. My ex brother in law was assaulted in the run up to the referendum because he said he would vote No.

UKIP have nothing to do with this debate, the Scottish question has been on the political table for decades now, long before UKIP existed - and how can you say that 1.7 million Scots' (Salmond's figures) desire for independence have been "dismissed" when they've just had a full referendum on the issue resulting in 28 out of the 32 areas voting NO and with a sizeable majority?

Why shouldn't the English have a say? By your own logic, denying the English a say in their own future after seeing the Scots have had theirs IS being dismissive. There is a simmering resentment south of the border that the Scots are taking too much. Ignoring it won't make it go away, it will only help swell UKIP even more as we've seen with the SNP when there's a perceived sense of injustice. The answer is to see if the perceived sense of injustice is justified then put it right, it's NOT the answer to rip the UK apart because a very small minority want it.

We are the UK, one nation comprising of several countries, but still one nation, so intertwined that separation would severely damage ALL parties concerned. If the Scottish Yes voters have the right to pursue their ideals of freedom in their way, then the vast majority of the UK population has the right to defend their ideals their way too.

The unpalatable truth for the Yes voters is that they can't even command a majority in their own backyard, yet the 1.7 million will do all they can to force their will on the 60 million. I would be glad if we still had the Union, but the Yes voters will use whatever means to hand - democratic or not - to make sure that the Union ceases to exist, and as a UK citizen I have the right to voice an opinion.

Posted 29 Sep 2014
Edited by Jackass 29 Sep 2014
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