scottish referendum

scottish referendum

257 posts
14 Sep 2014
tonycsm
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tonycsm
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And yes, it is British Nationalism.


No it sounds like sour grapes to me!

Those people are no more repreesentative of the people of the UK than are groups like the National Front!

Posted 19 Sep 2014
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tonycsm

No it sounds like sour grapes to me!

Those people are no more repreesentative of the people of the UK than are groups like the National Front!



I didn't say they were representative of the people of the UK, of course they're not.  But, just like the National Front they are the ugly face of British Nationalism.

Posted 19 Sep 2014
tonycsm
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tonycsm
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I didn't say they were representative of the people of the UK, of course they're not.  But, just like the National Front they are the ugly face of British Nationalism.



They're nothing more than thugs and morons who should be denounced by any decent thinking person.. However, I'll wager very few of the trouble causers are other than of Scottish decent.

Posted 19 Sep 2014
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tonycsm

They're nothing more than thugs and morons who should be denounced by any decent thinking person..


Agreed, they are scum.

tonycsm

However, I'll wager very few of the trouble causers are other than of Scottish decent.



Bit of a cheap shot, while technically correct we have seen their clones all over the UK, as I said they are the ugly face of British Nationalism.

Posted 19 Sep 2014
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My emotions:- I took my son (19) into Glasgow on Wednesday. We are both big Yessers and Yes had been occupying George Square all week so the day before the referendum (yesmas eve) we wanted to sample the atmosphere. Sometimes when you do these things they don't really live up to the hype. But Wednesday did, in bucket loads. We had something to eat then went round to the Square in time to listen to Tommy Sheridan. He wasn't talking to undecided people so he was in full Yes flow, at times I was wiping my eyes but kept my cool and laughed at some of his stuff "We don't want the crumbs from Westminster's table any more, we want the bakery" brilliant stuff that set the mood in front of thousands of us. We went for a pint in the Yes bar just for the hell of it and since I am proud of the city of my birth I took my son into the Horseshoe bar, as you do as a Dad. Of course in the Horseshoe we bumped into a random drunk person who also turned out to be both a tim and a Yesser. Having been refreshed we returned to the square and by that time it was getting dark and the atmosphere was really building. The next couple of hours went by quickly, listening to Yes speakers, poets and singers. The highlight was singing "Caledonia" with 20,000 other yessers, people hugging strangers and dancing. I am 57 and had never experienced this, it was exhilarating, I had to stem my tears once again. I will never forget this evening. Thursday was terrible, I was dying to vote Yes and my son and I had agreed we would do it together so I worked from home to facilitate this. My wife was working late and would vote on her way home. So, being a student he didn't get out his bed until after lunchtime. I had a tear waiting in my eye waiting on him, my emotions were really getting the better of me. Eventually we were ready. My son wore his Lidl kilt as he said he would, he also wore wore his Scotland Supporter's club top. It was only 200 yards to the polling station but we got abused from passing cars twice. We just laughed. I thought the emotional bubble might burst when I saw the ballot paper and the pencil. But no, it was a breeze. We walked out the polling station and walked the 200 yards back like Clint Eastwood. I knew then that the bubble would burst when the result was announced. Celtic at least gave me something to forget about the referendum in the evening. Decent game, decent result, point away although we lost the lead twice. But I was happy with that. As said, I knew then that the bubble would burst when the result was announced. But it didn't. It probably would have if we'd won, but we didn't. I spent all night awake and went to bed at 5am, getting up for work at 9am, now very fragile, although I was working from home so didn't have to actually face anyone. Alex Salmond announced his retirement. I was OK. Westminster reneged on their late promises which probably won them the referendum. I was OK. This picture from tonight sent me over the edge. Have we achieved anything?
Posted 19 Sep 2014
CSD_Images
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CSD_Images
There are no Unionists or Independence people any more, the vote is done and dusted. This is a mindless crowd looking for attention. Out of all the cities in Scotland it's only Glasgow that has this issue, why? This is Glaswegians bringing shame on themselves, especially after being great examples of how these kinds of worldwide events should be run. Glasgow out of all the cities in Scotland is probably the most fractious with it's long history of violence and sectarianism.

The Scottish Referendum had two main tactics, the BT used classical tried and tested political campaigning all along. Indie's used a dangerous tactic they used grass roots to appeal to votes passion and patriotism. That's a very volatile mix. Yes, BT used patriotism but they didn't engage the votes in the same way. The problem with grass roots you're going to get situations like this, emotions are running high, you have anger on both sides and you create divisions. Scotland has never needed more divisions as we're always willing to fight ourselves instead of uniting. It's going to take a long, long time for these wounds to heal.

It's time Glasgow dealt with their problems or this will happen again.

Posted 20 Sep 2014
tonycsm
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tonycsm
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Agreed, they are scum.



Bit of a cheap shot, while technically correct we have seen their clones all over the UK, as I said they are the ugly face of British Nationalism.



It wasn't intended as a cheap shot - pro-Independence v Unionism is a particular divisive Scottish problem, just as the NF or EDL are English.

Unfortunately thuggery is something that most countries experience - that's what they are, small groups of thugs who latch onto a 'cause' and use it as a means to excuse fighting and violence..... nothing more than morons!



Posted 20 Sep 2014
RedChecker
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There are no Unionists or Independence people any more, the vote is done and dusted.


I've seen a few posts on FB from the 'yes' camp that they're wanting another go, sooner rather than later.  I can only think of them as being complete ****ing idiots if this is true.

Firstly because their voices have been heard, Westminster cannot ignore the threat of 45% of Scotlant feeling discontented so the least they should do it give it time to see what change may come, even if it extends beyond Cameron's promise (which timetable-wise is arguably way to ambitious and these things shouldn't be rushed through otherwise we'll all get a deal that doesn't work).

Secondly, by piping up about having another, all they'll do is not only stir up bitterness but also scare away business investment.  If Scotland really is the land of milk & honey businesses will come to them if they make a compelling case to attract them.  Acting like spoiled children not getting their own way and threatening uncertainty isn't going to help anyone.
Posted 20 Sep 2014
marlhamphoto
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marlhamphoto
The money is already on the move out of Scotland. The very fact that 45% voted yes on the back of Salmond's nut-job economics means the uncertainty simply isn't going to go away. There will be a pause for sure but big business won't allow itself to be caught out again. Best reckoning is that 5-10 years and there'll be another referendum - because 45% is a big impetus and it ain't going to held back for a generation as some people seem to think.

Salmond knows what's looming for Scotland now, in economic terms, and I reckon that's why he went. He gambled recklessly, lost, and knows that the price of having lost will be catastrophic for Scotland.

His big mistake - failing to realise that business/economics trumps politics any day.
Posted 20 Sep 2014
Edited by marlhamphoto 20 Sep 2014
magpie1
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'Afters' and ' don't let it lie' bitterness, is the inevitable consequence of the SNP, Salmond orchestrated, campaign with its hardly disguised sub agenda of 'persecuted , wrongly done to' nation, let's even up history, and his 'resignation' speech had little content of reconciliation the "for now" phraseology throughout rather contradicted the previous "for a generation, or a lifetime" rhetoric, if the result had gone for him. So it's "best out of three" now?

Posted 20 Sep 2014
DorsetHammer
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There's plenty of meat on the bone of this vote for those, like me, who enjoy political debate. Have to say I did smile at the results from Orkney and Shetland - heard one voter from Shetland say they'd sooner belong to Norway than a country run by the SNP.

Posted 20 Sep 2014
RedChecker
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It may be worth rebuilding a modern equivalent of Hadrian's Wall as a precautionary measure in case the shit hits the fan and they have civil war up there. Just saying.

Posted 20 Sep 2014
magpie1
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magpie1
Hadrians wall is a good bit south of the present border, but we could make it the Antonine wall!

Posted 20 Sep 2014
Jackass
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DorsetHammer
There's plenty of meat on the bone of this vote for those, like me, who enjoy political debate. Have to say I did smile at the results from Orkney and Shetland - heard one voter from Shetland say they'd sooner belong to Norway than a country run by the SNP.
I was up at RAF Saxa Vord in the Shetlands in 1987, dismantling the domes after the big storms. Talking to the locals, even back then they were adamant to a man that they would rather be a part of Norway than an independent Scotland. When Salmond talks of 45% wanting separation he fails to mention that 55% want to remain British.
Posted 20 Sep 2014
jivago
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I was up at RAF Saxa Vord in the Shetlands in 1987, dismantling the domes after the big storms. Talking to the locals, even back then they were adamant to a man that they would rather be a part of Norway than an independent Scotland. When Salmond talks of 45% wanting separation he fails to mention that 55% want to remain British.


Aye 55% who embody so many who demand a readical change in the relationship with Westminster - We all know that 'Devo-Max' was a vast majority.

Posted 21 Sep 2014
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