scottish referendum

scottish referendum

257 posts
14 Sep 2014
IainT
Photographer
IainT
redbaron
Well I have certainly seen a lot more intelligence in Ian's post on here that you have displayed in your crass and patronising bit of gibberish. While I don't actually agree with his reason for wanting to vote Yes I can certainly comprehend the sentiment behind it. The snag of course is that frustrating though it is this on not about giving the tories a good kicking, or labour or UKIP. The votes polled will put an end to hundreds of years of cooperation that has benefited us all for a lifetime or more. Yes the No campaign has been a shambles.
You are right of course, being annoyed by others stupidity is not a good reason to make a choice. I don't have a vote, in common with other Scots currently living outside Scotland. But whatever I say and however the much the No campaign and some of the ignorant (about Scotland) comentators infuriate me...and at times they have really made my blood boil, I might go to the poling station with an angry intention to vote Yes, but like many others, common sense and common purpose would prevail and I would end up ticking the No box. I suspect thats what will happen tomorrow. Many Scots will be angry enough to vote Yes, but in the end when confronted with a ballot paper, will calm down and vote No. One thing many people do not understand about Scottish politics and the SNP is that in recent times they have become less Nationalist by a long way, Salmond himself did not want Independence he simply wanted a more powerful Scottish government whilst remaining in the UK, exactly what the majority of Scots want. They are a party who draw from all sides of the Political spectrum, (where do you think the disaffected Tory voters went?) Salmonds own seat was a safe Tory seat until he won it. Most people will say he has done an excellent job as First Minister and whatever the outcome tomorrow, he will probably remain in power and will probably get exactly the powers he wanted prior to the referendum.
Posted 18 Sep 2014
IainT
Photographer
IainT
anthonyh
If the Scots go it is because half the Scots hate the Tories and that will have ramifications in May....half the rest of us hate the Tories as well..
This is the ultimate reason why in reality I could not vote yes and why probably (hopefully) half the Scots will not vote yes. Labour has a huge following in the industrial central belt, and the "sink" estates but is unpopular in most of urban and rural Scotland. Although it seems Salmond and the SNP have Scotland tied up politically for the foreseeable future, the prospect of a left wing labour government at some point is enough to make a lot of Scots vote no. It would have been one of my primary reasons anyway.
Posted 18 Sep 2014
jpv
Photographer
jpv
Of course we do not know what will come from a Yes vote. I do not mean that Scotland will not get to totally run its own affairs but what the structure of the constitution(s) for both countries will look like.

When James 6th (James 1 of England) became King there was one Kingdom but two countries, perhaps this will be the route taken by the politicians, no one has said they know what if any agreements have been made in the background.

I presume that a Royal Commission set up jointly by both parties will be needed to guide through the forthcoming process, the information is scant but I understand that it took in excess of 150 treaties to part the Checks and Slovaks and our Union lasted much longer.


Posted 18 Sep 2014
anthonyh
Photographer
anthonyh
IainT

This is the ultimate reason why in reality I could not vote yes and why probably (hopefully) half the Scots will not vote yes. Labour has a huge following in the industrial central belt, and the "sink" estates but is unpopular in most of urban and rural Scotland. Although it seems Salmond and the SNP have Scotland tied up politically for the foreseeable future, the prospect of a left wing labour government at some point is enough to make a lot of Scots vote no. It would have been one of my primary reasons anyway.


Lets hope you are right but I would also blame Milliband if the Scots leave. If the labour party had an effective leader....a genuine future prime minister...the next election outcome would have seen the end of the Tories for definite...and Scots would have been more wary of abandoning a more socialist UK.

But Milliband won't go and so the outcome is less sure....there is nothing about the current Labour leadership that gives the Scots any confidence with regards to getting the fairer society they want. Milliband is probably the Tories best hope for success in the next election....and as I have argued....he has contributed to the Yes vote in Scotland.
Posted 18 Sep 2014
anthonyh
Photographer
anthonyh
jpv

Of course we do not know what will come from a Yes vote. I do not mean that Scotland will not get to totally run its own affairs but what the structure of the constitution(s) for both countries will look like. When James 6th (James 1 of England) became King there was one Kingdom but two countries, perhaps this will be the route taken by the politicians, no one has said they know what if any agreements have been made in the background. I presume that a Royal Commission set up jointly by both parties will be needed to guide through the forthcoming process, the information is scant but I understand that it took in excess of 150 treaties to part the Checks and Slovaks and our Union lasted much longer.


My uderstanding of history is that James the 1st was King of three countries...England, Scotland and Ireland...each with seperate parliaments. It was the much later Act of Union that merged the Scots with the English. Can't remember how the Irish fitted in to the merger....I think it pre-dated the Scots.
Posted 18 Sep 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Don't forget it was Labour who suggested devolution in the first place. Shot themselves in the foot with that one
Posted 18 Sep 2014
JTD
Photographer
JTD
.........but equally important will Berwick Rangers still be able to play in the Scottish League ?

Posted 18 Sep 2014
IainT
Photographer
IainT
RedChecker
Don't forget it was Labour who suggested devolution in the first place. Shot themselves in the foot with that one
Labour did not suggest it, devolution had been on the cards for years, the Tories outright refused to consider it, Labour included it in their manifesto as an election bribe, wrongly assuming it was a way of guaranteeing a permanent Labour administration in Scotland. But yes, they shot themselves in the foot by taking Scots voters for granted.
Posted 18 Sep 2014
anthonyh
Photographer
anthonyh
RedChecker
Don't forget it was Labour who suggested devolution in the first place. Shot themselves in the foot with that one
Labour should have faced the Scots down but set up a system to devolve power more equitably to all UK regions....not a system that favoured some more than others. If different regions want to rely on history to make their claims then there are others that could be considered.....both Kent and Cornwall were independent kingdoms before Scotland......there were others that eventually amalgamated to become England.
Posted 18 Sep 2014
Chandos
Photographer
Chandos
RedChecker
Worth reading
Rather have a sank instead
Posted 18 Sep 2014
Chandos
Photographer
Chandos
RedChecker
Worth reading
Rather have a wank instead
Posted 18 Sep 2014
Chandos
Photographer
Chandos
IainT
Labour did not suggest it, devolution had been on the cards for years, the Tories outright refused to consider it, Labour included it in their manifesto as an election bribe, wrongly assuming it was a way of guaranteeing a permanent Labour administration in Scotland. But yes, they shot themselves in the foot by taking Scots voters for granted.
That is correct. Wasn't because of Mel Gibson either but then Hollywood does help glamourises it a bit.
Posted 18 Sep 2014
JTD
Photographer
JTD
I assume that everyone has taken into account that if the yes vote is carried that, although Scotland as a country would be independent, the "no" voters might choose to retain British Citizenship in which case the population of Scotland could effectively be halved. It is what Hong Kong citizens tried but the pro British Scots might have a better chance of success. That would be interesting.

Posted 18 Sep 2014
anthonyh
Photographer
anthonyh
JTD

I assume that everyone has taken into account that if the yes vote is carried that, although Scotland as a country would be independent, the "no" voters might choose to retain British Citizenship in which case the population of Scotland could effectively be halved. It is what Hong Kong citizens tried but the pro British Scots might have a better chance of success. That would be interesting.


I mentioned that earlier...and that it is likely to be the more affluent Scots that choose to migrate south. And theoretically...if things will be as good as Salmond claims...poorer people should be planning to migrate north.frown
Posted 18 Sep 2014
Edited by anthonyh 18 Sep 2014
JTD
Photographer
JTD
I’m not suggesting that they would migrate south. They could remain in Scotland the same as other Europeans do in the UK at present. It would just mean that the country would have 50% or so Scots with Scottish Passports and 50% Scots with British Passports. They would still all be Scots living in Scotland but some have the right to live in the UK and vote accordingly if the going gets tough and if they so wish.

Posted 18 Sep 2014
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