so you want paid do you ! ***controversial***

so you want paid do you ! ***controversial***

29 posts
6 Sep 2014
photostore
Photographer
photostore
A question for the models mainly,  but free for all to discuss.

is it enough to be pretty? in order to charge and claim to be professional and get work on these forums ( some even not hitting the pretty part ! so probably getting the tits out instead and still having no clue as to modelling)

i ask after a long break from shooting models and having had a look around the various forums as i'm about to return, and  it appears nothing has changed in the right direction regards quality and so called "pro models" (read charging fee models) 

Now im not having a pop at you all, but when i see some of the quality of your ports and the rates, i have to ask what idiots are actually paying these people. and usually 3 or 4 times what most people make for an hourly wage

if i am paying i would not expect to have to describe every pose to you and have to spend more time doing "your job" rather than mine.

I have worked with some great, inspirational models who worked with me to produce better images than i ever did  compared to the last shoot and one who after looking at the shots in camera, even demanded that i did,saying she knew i could do better !     thats a true pro in my book. and then i have also worked with some paid "girls" who cant model to save themselves , where i booked them based in part on look and previous photographers feedback. ( lies i suspect in order not to upset them)

so there we have it, justify yourselves and your rates  ? you know deep down who you are and your capabilities to actual model, for the rest who can do a job, i feel for you, that your chances of paid work are being diluted by the others who put no time into learning their craft and those who continue to pay them without question.

agree with me ? or flame me ? but lets get it in the open be honest about "our lot" as members of these forums/sites.


Posted 6 Sep 2014
Edited by photostore 6 Sep 2014
pentax5AC
Photographer
pentax5AC
I agree with some your sentiment, but the wide range in looks, application and ability can also be a VERY positive thing in itself, and is, in fairness, reflected in the very mixed capabilities of the so called “professional” photographers. I first photographed a topless model in 1977, at least two decades before most of the models registered on this site knew what their feminine assets were; still less how to shake them at a lens for best effect. I have photographed hundreds of girls since, from the clueless amateur to the pretentious “God’s gift to men” professional. I think the market is big enough to include ALL. And if some strapped for cash amateur girl wants to strip off at the weekend for some hobbyist snapper who doesn’t know his aperture from his lens cap. Then good luck to them! You pay your money and take your pick!
Posted 6 Sep 2014
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
That's that then!

Posted 6 Sep 2014
jpv
Photographer
jpv
It's simple human choice (the market). If they get paid for their efforts by some then why not? If it's not worth it to you, don't book them.

For myself I nearly always pay and have worked with raw beginners to models who have appeared in the Sun and Playboy. As a photographer who likes to provide a substantial amount of direction and control over the poses I do not find that having to provide continuous direction a problem and rarely want a model to "free flow" into their gamut of positions and looks.

Posted 6 Sep 2014
Socialdisaster
Photographer
Socialdisaster
photostore
i have to ask what idiots are actually paying these people.
The idiots are the majority user base of sites such as these. The photographers who have skills levels in line with the terrible model ports they pay for. They are the silent majority, the income of the owners. I believe modelling and photography has levels (not that kind of level..) and it all evens out in the end. The great models work with the great photographers. The good, with the good, the Ok with the Ok and the rest? Well, with the rest.
Posted 6 Sep 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Good photographers don't need great models, and good models can help average photographers produce good photos.

Your great model may just run through a range of standard glamour poses which are of no interest to me.
I want a model who is at least interested in what I want from the shoot that I am paying for, and normally manage to find models who make a positive contribution to the results, not just by providing a beautiful face and body. I can't say that I have found any particular correlation between the experience/great portfolio that a model may have and her performance at a particular shoot.

Who does the styling in your shoots ? Who does the Make-up ?


Posted 6 Sep 2014
Edited by stolenfaces 6 Sep 2014
arkady001
Photographer
arkady001
Preaching to the converted, but since most of us can spot a newbie chancing their luck, just as experienced models can spot a GWC with a fat wallet, there's no harm done really.
People can charge what they like, no-one is obliged to pay them. Either they wise up and readjust their expectations, or they fade away into obscurity.

Posted 6 Sep 2014
To be fair, the kind of models you're referring to don't tend to frequent the forums. They probably model for a bit of extra cash - hence the higher rates as they don't really mind if they get one booking a week or 3 - and probably do higher levels. Plenty of horny guys with cameras willing to shoot anyone if they'll get their foof out and open for a reasonable price.
Posted 6 Sep 2014
marlhamphoto
Photographer
marlhamphoto
jessicard

Plenty of horny guys with cameras willing to shoot anyone if they'll get their foof out and open for a reasonable price.

Yep. They're almost single-handedly responsible for keeping the whole internet model economy going. Where would we all be without them - certainly there would be far fewer models available
Posted 6 Sep 2014
photostore
Photographer
photostore
well it seems from my pm's today, that more think like me, but don't want the hassle of saying so on forum, good news "i'm not alone" in my thoughts about this and it seems both photographers and quality models are sick of the wannabes or the uninterested who happen to be caught in a "debt period" in their lives and see modelling (quote from jess "foof out and open")
for flesh hunters, as a way to get some quick and easy cash (not declared of course)



Posted 6 Sep 2014
photostore
Photographer
photostore
I guess it is the same in any industry, take decorators, you have good painters and shit painters, then you also have the ripping off merchants who never passed a trade test, but charge ten times more than the qualified tradesman, not sure if they get their shaved badgers out though ? ................brushes, im talking brushes !
Posted 6 Sep 2014
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
I can only speak for my own model selection process.

They get hired if they're suitable for the job.

"Being pretty" is a bit meaningless. Being desirable to the audience I'm shooting for" is nearer the mark. But that's not adequate on its own, and there are requirements that are harder than that to fulfil.



Posted 6 Sep 2014
profilepictures
Photographer
profilepictures
What's with the thinly veiled negative comments about nudity though? I understand its fine to have a moan that everyone else is at fault for your state of mind relative to your photography experience, but you want to edge in the nudity comments too? Why is that do you think? Is a model more substandard if they wear fewer clothes then? Surely you aren't alarmed or surprised that some of the range of models shoot to topless or nude? As an alternative view, there's some fairly dismal photography about, but not only does it provide work for people, it's also just part of a spectrum for any of the participants from the site surely? Might be I misread you, but you baited the title with 'controversial' and all I saw was bleating and some disdain for nudity; perhaps there was more to the point.

Posted 6 Sep 2014
photostore
Photographer
photostore
profilepictures

What's with the thinly veiled negative comments about nudity though? I understand its fine to have a moan that everyone else is at fault for your state of mind relative to your photography experience, but you want to edge in the nudity comments too? Why is that do you think? Is a model more substandard if they wear fewer clothes then? Surely you aren't alarmed or surprised that some of the range of models shoot to topless or nude? As an alternative view, there's some fairly dismal photography about, but not only does it provide work for people, it's also just part of a spectrum for any of the participants from the site surely? Might be I misread you, but you baited the title with 'controversial' and all I saw was bleating and some disdain for nudity; perhaps there was more to the point.


ok here goes, "veiled negative comments about nudity " Where did you get that, firstly i dont think any of my comments were "veiled"  for anyone who missed i do not think getting your tits out qualifies anyone as a model and i thought i made that clear, i have no issue with nudity, seriously, have you even looked at my port ? probably more with nudity than not !

Is it too much to expect a "model" to be able to do just that ? 
how many models on here or other forums are really doing it for the love of it ? even if accepting payment.

most likely the reasons  for a lot modelling on these forums are:

 I'm genuinly interested and want to try this, usually scared away within a fortnight once their mailbox fills up with dodgy requests
I hate doing this but  it's a quick way to pay off my debts
im between jobs/college
it's just an addition to my sex worker income (or another avenue to paid sex work punters ) oh no he did'nt really say that did he ? yep i sure did !
im going to be the next big thing (delusional)
the list is long and varied

modelling as a job is no differrent to any other, you have to work at it, devote time to it and to excell at it you most likely have to love it . if you cant do that then it shows in the results and i for one will now ask, "so you want paid do you ?

Posted 6 Sep 2014
Edited by photostore 6 Sep 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
photostore
ok here goes, "veiled negative comments about nudity " Where did you get that, firstly i dont think any of my comments were "veiled"  for anyone who missed i do not think getting your tits out qualifies anyone as a model and i thought i made that clear, i have no issue with nudity, seriously, have you even looked at my port ? probably more with nudity than not ! Is it too much to expect a "model" to be able to do just that ?  how many models on here or other forums are really doing it for the love of it ? even if accepting payment. most likely the reasons  for a lot modelling on these forums are:  I'm genuinly interested and want to try this, usually scared away within a fortnight once their mailbox fills up with dodgy requests I hate doing this but  it's a quick way to pay off my debts im between jobs/college it's just an addition to my sex worker income (or another avenue to paid sex work punters ) oh no he did'nt really say that did he ? yep i sure did ! im going to be the next big thing (delusional) the list is long and varied modelling as a job is no differrent to any other, you have to work at it, devote time to it and to excell at it you most likely have to love it . if you cant do that then it shows in the results and i for one will now ask, "so you want paid do you ?
Your view of a competent model is just your view. The elephant in the room here is that you think it's perfectly ok for a model to be delusional as long as she doesn't ask to be paid. My opinion is that I won't work with a model that isn't worth paying. If I'm not interested in working with a model I just don't care what they do. Just because you think these girls that you think can't model (presumably because you can't judge a model by anything other than a top photographer's photos in her portfolio) you think they should work for free. If you don't think a model is any good why would you care whether she is asking for paid work, surely you wouldn't work with someone you thought incompetent just because they'd shoot with you for free, would you ? To spend your time moaning about people you don't want to shoot seems rather sad. This is a market, if the model won't work for you at a rate you think she's worth, then don't shoot her. It's glaringly simple.
Posted 6 Sep 2014
Edited by stolenfaces 6 Sep 2014
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