DSLR Video

25 posts
13 June 2014
Imagefield
Photographer
Imagefield
OK so I have a new client wanting video clips (not stills product shots) Each a max at 15 seconds or less but lots and lots and lots of them. Looking at the size of the job it will be shooting for 3 days a week. However I anticipate gaps of 'sensor on' time of at least 1 min between products so an over heated sensor may not be an issue? No need to record sound, only to dub music in post. Will all be high key. None will need any camera movement, it can be fixed on the tripod. All current kit is Nikon but the D3x don't do video ...? So I need to buy a new kit - First off is a camera body that will do video - An obvious choice is the D800 as it can double as a stills camera it is smaller than the D3x and the extra pixels will come in useful ...occasionally ..well probably... But the D610 is almost as good a lot smaller and similar sensor to the 3x which I have been able to enlarge to gallery quality AO size with zero issue. Plus carrying a D3 all day is not fun. Or I could go fully video low end semi pro video like a blackmagic, XA20, Xf100 or ? (however daft, for the client it needs to look good!) TBH there is not much in the price between the choices! What other considerations would you include? Then I need continuous lighting rather than my current Bowen strobes. Studio is all white with infinity curve at one end and lots of poly boards to use as flags. There are available 1000w florescent twisted tube kits with soft boxes at incredibly low prices close on equivalent 6000w of light from 6 heads for £300, which in theory should be enough light to keep a significantly deep dof which would be perfect for my requirements? But i'm unsure if this will cause more flicker Moire and Aliasing than other available sources? Then I will need to edit (simple and fast 'top n tail' and music dub) so looking for editing s/w that is quick and simple to use. Please feel free to add your 2p worth on any or all of the above points Thanks
Posted 13 June 2014
Edited by Imagefield 13 June 2014
Chandos
Photographer
Chandos
Imagefield
Then I will need to edit (simple and fast 'top n tail' and music dub) so looking for editing s/w that is quick and simple to use
Sounds to me you need a camcorder rather than a dSLR for video
Posted 13 June 2014
Edited by Chandos 13 June 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Chandos

Sounds to me you need a camcorder rather than a dSLR for video


But as you pointed out in the last video thread, dSLRs only record in 4:2:0 wheras camcorders like the XF100 record in 4:2:2 so therefore potentially better colour rendition which would be better for clean product shots surely?


The camcorder approach may be more beneficial because of the lighting (which may simply be 50Hz if there's no balast technology there).  My XF100 has the ability to adjust the scan frequency in the event that you're working (say) under lighting that's flickering or recording a video screen.  Companies producing like KinoFlo are both expensive and well trusted for video work for the simple reason that their gear doesn't produce noticeable flicker (theirs comes in at 100kHz).

Do be careful however as some cameras (like the XF100) tend to record to 'professional' file formats (XF100 records in MXF format) and as such needs 'professional' software to get it to work (I ended up getting Vegas Pro for mine but Premiere, Final Cut and Edius also support MXF).

Another option is something like the new Lumix dSLR which is pretty affordable (~ £1500 with lens IIRC) but it also records 4K.  Even if you don't need 4K you can always scale down during export but you will theortetically have much higher quality end footage.
Posted 13 June 2014
Chandos
Photographer
Chandos
RedChecker
But as you pointed out in the last video thread, dSLRs only record in 4:2:0 wheras camcorders like the XF100 record in 4:2:2 so therefore potentially better colour rendition which would be better for clean product shots surely?
Don't remember saying any of that certainly never mention "dSLR only record in 4:2:0". I might have replied to someone "if he is using a Canon dSLR recording in 8 bit 4.2.0." No mention from me about XF100 Some dSLRs can record in 4.2.2 8bit using HDMI out to an external recorder.
Posted 13 June 2014
Edited by Chandos 13 June 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Chandos

Don't remember saying any of that certainly never mention "dSLR only record in 4:2:0". I might have replied to someone "if he is using a Canon dSLR recording in 8 bit 4.2.0." No mention from me about XF100 Some dSLRs can record in 4.2.2 8bit using HDMI out to an external recorder.

I wa saying you mentioned about the 4:2:0 previously,  I wasn't saying you mentioned about the XF100 & 4:2:2 but the OP mentioned it as a potential alternative to a dSLR and I was simply pointing out that the XF100 would record in 4:2:2

As for external recording, that's surely starting to get messy for the OP's needs.
Posted 13 June 2014
Chandos
Photographer
Chandos
I certainly wouldn't belittle the op since external recorder is a very simple piece of kit to operate and can be very cheap too, well maybe not the CFast cards http://www.atomos.com/ninja-star/
Posted 13 June 2014
Edited by Chandos 13 June 2014
Imagefield
Photographer
Imagefield
The advantage of a DSLR such as the 610 is that its a good back up for other work too.

The point on the lighting being at 50hz as I doubt I'm going to get much for £300 other than a fancy light bulb holder!
however the D610 does have some adjustability for flicker as it can auto adjust to 60 hz

Has any one used the D610 or D800 for video work ?


Posted 14 June 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
I do the occasional video clip on my D800 at live gigs. Not sure that is much use in comparison to your requirements but my you tube channel is here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/wildblanket

For editing I use Sony Vegas Movie Studio which is simple to use and pretty powerful for less than £50

Posted 14 June 2014
Imagefield
Photographer
Imagefield
No thats a good indicator - my main concern is flicker from the lights right now suppose the best way is to jump in and test it !
stolenfaces
I do the occasional video clip on my D800 at live gigs. Not sure that is much use in comparison to your requirements but my you tube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/user/wildblanket For editing I use Sony Vegas Movie Studio which is simple to use and pretty powerful for less than £50
Posted 15 June 2014
w4pictures
Photographer
w4pictures
As I recall, some video cameras have an electronic shutter. This will sort out flicker unless its inconstant which it shouldn't be from normal national grid mains.

Use 25th sec (or multiples thereof for effect) in UK and Europe or 30th if across the pond.

However, I've found that even stills cameras with a preset frame rate of 30fps seem fine under flourescent light in UK.

If you can, ask the question on a video site for a more informed answer than this.

Posted 15 June 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
w4pictures

As I recall, some video cameras have an electronic shutter. This will sort out flicker unless its inconstant which it shouldn't be from normal national grid mains.


All video devices use electronic shutter (even dating back to 80s camcorders), that doesn't prevent them from having flicker unless the frequency is absolutely identical.  The problem is that the frequency of either the mains supply, lighting (depending on what ballast it has) or the camera itself can be minute fractions out and this is where flicker reduction of pro-grade camcorders comes into its own (mine adjusts in 0.01Hz increments IIRC).
Posted 15 June 2014
AegeanSoft
Photographer
AegeanSoft
I use high frequency ballasted daylight balanced CFLs for my video work. No flicker problem and minimal heat output.

Posted 16 June 2014
Imagefield
Photographer
Imagefield
Thanks Aegean thats very useful information indeed.

and I guess your not using a DSLR to video?




Posted 16 June 2014
AegeanSoft
Photographer
AegeanSoft
Imagefield
Thanks Aegean thats very useful information indeed. and I guess your not using a DSLR to video?
No, I use a Sony HVR-Z1 video camera.
Posted 16 June 2014
w4pictures
Photographer
w4pictures
RedChecker

All video devices use electronic shutter (even dating back to 80s camcorders), that doesn't prevent them from having flicker unless the frequency is absolutely identical.  The problem is that the frequency of either the mains supply, lighting (depending on what ballast it has) or the camera itself can be minute fractions out and this is where flicker reduction of pro-grade camcorders comes into its own (mine adjusts in 0.01Hz increments IIRC).


Many camcorders do not have a shutter. They don't necessarily need one, especially if they record interlaced. For the European market, PAL and SECAM colours, they will record at 25fps and 30fps for NTSC without a shutter.

In the 80s and 90s, it was commonplace to shoot interlaced to effectively double the frame rate and reduce perceived motion blur but this had its own problems in post production. Its now the trend to shoot progressive and to use a shutter where appropriate, albeit with the issues of motion and exposure, to give the film look to video.

With no shutter, there should be no issues with flicker. Incandescent lights flicker but the perceived wisdom is that the filaments do not cool enough between cycles for the flicker to be visible. Flourescents have a more visible pulse, neon more so and HMIs are essentially flash heads firing 25 or 50 times a second or as a pulsed square wave on flicker free.

The best way to ensure a constant light source is to apply a DC current to it.
Posted 16 June 2014
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