GOODBYE BENN

66 posts
16 March 2014
pentax5AC
Photographer
pentax5AC
Any pretence of sadness at the passing of Tony Benn would be extremely hypocritical on my part because of my personal commitment to nationalist politics. However, unlike those hate filled extremists of the political- left, adherents to the same socialist ideology Benn so passionately espoused, I will not ridicule his demise in the same vile and ugly way they revelled in the death of Margaret Thatcher. Pretentious, privileged and university educated as Tony Benn was, I always found it difficult to understand why he continually adapted his flawed brand of socialism to the defence of the indefensible. His willingness to advocate the corrupt Marxist regimes of Africa, such as Zimbabwe; his tacit support for the anti-democratic violence of the IRA , and his often hostile stance towards the U.S remain highly emotive and questionable. His death will no doubt see supporters hail him as the champion of the oppressed; for me he will simply remain that BIG (now closed) leftist mouth of civil unrest!
Posted 16 March 2014
profilepictures
Photographer
profilepictu..
LOL! That's cheered me up a treat, Thatcher's dead.
Posted 16 March 2014
skinz
Photographer
skinz
pentax5AC

Any pretence of sadness at the passing of Tony Benn would be extremely hypocritical on my part because of my personal commitment to nationalist politics. However, unlike those hate filled extremists of the political- left, adherents to the same socialist ideology Benn so passionately espoused, I will not ridicule his demise in the same vile and ugly way they revelled in the death of Margaret Thatcher. Pretentious, privileged and university educated as Tony Benn was, I always found it difficult to understand why he continually adapted his flawed brand of socialism to the defence of the indefensible. His willingness to advocate the corrupt Marxist regimes of Africa, such as Zimbabwe; his tacit support for the anti-democratic violence of the IRA , and his often hostile stance towards the U.S remain highly emotive and questionable. His death will no doubt see supporters hail him as the champion of the oppressed; for me he will simply remain that BIG (now closed) leftist mouth of civil unrest!


Maggie was a vile human being. Tony Benn was not; he was a great man.
Posted 16 March 2014
murphyspal
Photographer
murphyspal
Er... unlike Conservative and labour governments who happily sold arms and provided foreign aid to Zimbabwe and armed Hussein in his war with Iran. Mrs Thatcher, John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown David Cameron all have questionable histories in foreign policy and tug the forelock to regimes like Saudi Arabia where women are denied all sorts of rights, even the right to drive for God's sake and can be sentenced to death if guilty of maritial infidelity . To single one politician as worse and hypocritical because he was on the left is over simplistic. All politicians have dirty washing, and many see accusations of hypocrisy as a price payable for political expediency. It isn't a right/ left thing. It's a lack of principal in our political classes regardless of party ideology.

Posted 16 March 2014
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
pentax5AC
Any pretence of sadness at the passing of Tony Benn would be extremely hypocritical on my part because of my personal commitment to nationalist politics. However, unlike those hate filled extremists of the political- left, adherents to the same socialist ideology Benn so passionately espoused, I will not ridicule his demise in the same vile and ugly way they revelled in the death of Margaret Thatcher. Pretentious, privileged and university educated as Tony Benn was, I always found it difficult to understand why he continually adapted his flawed brand of socialism to the defence of the indefensible. His willingness to advocate the corrupt Marxist regimes of Africa, such as Zimbabwe; his tacit support for the anti-democratic violence of the IRA , and his often hostile stance towards the U.S remain highly emotive and questionable. His death will no doubt see supporters hail him as the champion of the oppressed; for me he will simply remain that BIG (now closed) leftist mouth of civil unrest!
The reason that Tony Benn was respected in all areas of society, and partulicularly in the political arena is that he would have considered it his failure that you were not persuaded by his arguments. When you say you're a nationalist I presume that is code for sad racist, but surely you hate the EU and would have been fully supportive of Tony's long-term stance against the EU. Personally I think you're an ignorant dickhead, but I'm sure that you'd recognise my democratic right to hold that opinion, because you're such a reasonable person. [as you're probably a bit thick, I should point out that comment was an elitist mix of irony and sarcasm ] Have you noticed how genuinely creative people tend to be leftist / anti-establishment ? Is your profile ironic ?
Posted 17 March 2014
Edited by stolenfaces 16 March 2014
mph
Photographer
mph
stolenfaces

 Have you noticed how genuinely creative people tend to be leftist / anti-establishment ?


As opposed to realistic and practical?  wink

Posted 17 March 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
mph

As opposed to realistic and practical?  wink



And intelligent
Posted 17 March 2014
carshaltonkev
Photographer
carshaltonke..
pentax5AC

. However, unlike those hate filled extremists of the political- left, adherents to the same socialist ideology Benn so passionately espoused, I will not ridicule his demise in the same vile and ugly way they revelled in the death of Margaret Thatcher. 


Are you really surprised that some people "revelled in the death of Margaret Thatcher", given what an awful, vile, obnoxious, arrogant, uncaring human being she was and given how much damage she did to certain communities in Britiain?!

I hasten to add that I did not celebrate her death, but I can totally understand why others did.  

Posted 17 March 2014
Edited by carshaltonkev 17 March 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
carshaltonkev

Are you really surprised that some people "revelled in the death of Margaret Thatcher", given what an awful, vile, obnoxious, arrogant, uncaring human being she was and given how much damage she did to certain communities in Britiain?!   



Sadly people have such short memories and forget that those dumb shits had already ruined their own communities with endless industrial action over the years.  She was simply acting as a final liquidator / performing last rites.

They only had themselves to blame for their downfall and putting their faith into socialist cretins like Scargill.
Posted 17 March 2014
carshaltonkev
Photographer
carshaltonke..
RedChecker

Sadly people have such short memories and forget that those dumb shits had already ruined their own communities with endless industrial action over the years.  She was simply acting as a final liquidator / performing last rites.

They only had themselves to blame for their downfall and putting their faith into socialist cretins like Scargill.


What utter hollyhocks. You should be writing political commentary for the Daily Mail.

She destroyed Britain’s manufacturing industry and her policies led to mass unemployment

Thatcher’s policies were not directed at causing mass unemployment but that was a consequence of her policies designed to control inflation, which at one point hit 18%.

Her #First_government_1979.E2.80.931983">Deflationary Strategy included several measures such as increasing interest rates and raising VAT from 8% to 15%.

These measures, coupled with the receipts from North Sea oil lead to a strengthening of Pound Sterling and hit export manufacturing incredibly hard.

Despite public outcry and plunging popularity, Thatcher stood firm in her policies, leading to one of her most famous quotes:

“To those waiting with bated breath for that favourite media catch-phrase—the U-turn—I have only one thing to say: you turn if you want to; the Lady’s not for turning.”

Ultimately her policies and the link between money supply and inflation were proven correct and inflation lowered to 8.5% by 1982.

But that was not before over 2 million manufacturing jobs had been lost in the 1979-81 recession and swathes of industry had been decimated, never to recover.

After the recession in 1983, manufacturing output was 30% lower than 1978 levels, reducing the manufacturing base so much that the balance of payments in manufactured goods was in deficit - and has been there ever since.

@S">THAT'S CORRECT- 2 MILLION MANUFACTURING JOBS LOST DUE TO THATCHER'S POLICIES IN 1979 TO 1981.


But of course, only one of the many reasons why Thatcher ended up hated by so many people.  Not all people, because some people did very well from her policies.

WHAT ABOUT THE POLL TAX RED CHECKER???!!! WAS THAT FAIR???!!!



Posted 17 March 2014
mph
Photographer
mph
carshaltonkev[/author WHAT ABOUT THE POLL TAX RED CHECKER???!!! WAS THAT FAIR???!!!
Yes
Posted 17 March 2014
carshaltonkev
Photographer
carshaltonke..
mph

Yes


I agree, very fair for the rich living in big houses! Not so fair for everybody else!

Not so fair for those like me, who were fined for non payment, even though I had paid, because my local council was in such a mess trying to cope with collecting it. Hardly surprising there were riots. There is only so much injustice that people can swallow.

Posted 17 March 2014
carshaltonkev
Photographer
carshaltonke..
Whenever I read somebody praising Thatcher on these forums I get carried away. Apologies it you find this rather boring, but I am not prepared to just sit here and say nothing. After this I will give it a rest.

Here are 42 good reasons not to like Thatcher-

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation


Posted 17 March 2014
mph
Photographer
mph
carshaltonkev

I agree, very fair for the rich living in big houses! Not so fair for everybody else!

Not so fair for those like me, who were fined for non payment, even though I had paid, because my local council was in such a mess trying to cope with collecting it. Hardly surprising there were riots. There is only so much injustice that people can swallow.


Why incidentally is it fair that four well paid people living in a small house pay less in council tax than one elderly person in a larger house?


The incompetence of your council employees is hardly a reason to hate Thatcher!
Posted 17 March 2014
mph
Photographer
mph
carshaltonkev

Whenever I read somebody praising Thatcher on these forums I get carried away. Apologies it you find this rather boring, but I am not prepared to just sit here and say nothing. After this I will give it a rest. Here are 42 good reasons not to like Thatcher



I really can't be bothered going through this load of tripe - but this one struck me.

"She invented Quangos"

Quote from that Thatcher loving paper - the Guardian - re quangos

"Margaret Thatcher, came to power in 1979 determined to slaughter many of them, but – as in much else – found it hard even for her formidable willpower to achieve."

Criticise her by all means for failing - but not for inventing them!

Still  laugh
Posted 17 March 2014
Edited by mph 17 March 2014
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