Can I control image usage from TFCD shoots?

Can I control image usage from TFCD shoots?

It seems this conversation has now been locked
35 posts
12 Feb 2014
I've started doing some modelling because I get a buzz out of showing off and seeing the amazing results after working with a cool photographer. I don't want this to be a job, full or part-time, and wouldn't want to stand in the way of the girls on here who clearly are carving a successful career from modelling.

I want to try everything, from portrait and fashion to erotic and other risqué style stuff. The problem is, it seems there is no way to limit usage of the photos post shoot. Obviously, portfolios and self promotion is fine, that's the idea with TFCD shoots, but how do I ensure sets of images are not sold, published or posted on adult sites or hosting sites?

Any advice greatly appreciated ... Ellora (my real name) x




Posted 12 Feb 2014
I think the only way to limit where the images are posted is if you pay for the photographer to take the images for you.
That way the only person who has the images is you. - although even that isn't foolproof - unless you supply the memory card and take it off the photographer at the end of the shoot.

Posting on portfolios etc can lead to images being posted elsewhere, just this week a website/forum was discovered which is pretty much a dirty little cave for people to post images ripped from models pages/pay to view sites etc for others to discuss or have a w@nk over. So you may be able to get some places to take images down but you can't control the other little cesspits that populate the internet.

I say unless you wouldn't mind all your family and friends/future children seeing the images then just don't pose for them - honestly. I have never been ashamed of any shoots I have done however some of the forums I have popped up on and the commentary by those who have posted links to my work has made me sick in the past.
Posted 12 Feb 2014
Edited by Chrissie_Red 12 Feb 2014
photostore
Photographer
photostore
if you want assurance it wont be sold, posted etc now or in the future the only way is don't shoot anything your not happy to have seen anywhere, a decent written agreement could limit what the photographer/you can/can't use the shots for, but once they are on tinternet it has been known for shots to be stolen and end up absolutely anywhere and hosted in countries where you have little chance of doing anything about it.

So, not sure ? then don't shoot it

Posted 12 Feb 2014
magpie1
Photographer
magpie1
Paying a photographer for images, is, of itself, no way to restrict the usage of the images, the photographer, author still holds copyright. You would have to have a legally binding contract drawn up and agreed by both parties. Best advice, as has been said if you are uncertain, don't do it!

Posted 12 Feb 2014
magpie1

Paying a photographer for images, is, of itself, no way to restrict the usage of the images, the photographer, author still holds copyright. You would have to have a legally binding contract drawn up and agreed by both parties. Best advice, as has been said if you are uncertain, don't do it!


I'm pretty sure though if she were to apprach a decent photographer and specifically state to him "I don't want these online, or you using them" then they would say "thats cool whatever". I have worked with a vew bodoir photographers in the past, they regurlarly use models to advertise their business and would only use a past client with express permission to do so. Also lets face it the photographer probably already has better images than those which would be shot at a client session anyway.

It would be terribly bad for a business to use images which the client wanted private, it would effect future bookings because nobody would trust the photographer (and rightly so if he/she posted images from a private session). So I do think if the OP goes to somebody who has a strong reputation and good images then she would be safe in the knowledge that the images wouldn't end up all over the internet but if worst came to the worst then she could quite easily destroy photographers business by making other people aware of his/her practices. Thats what I would do if I paid for a private session with a photographer and they released images or sold them to porn sites. Anyone who would do that in my eyes don't deserve to have the trust of clients.
Posted 12 Feb 2014
Edited by Chrissie_Red 12 Feb 2014
magpie1
Photographer
magpie1
I completely agree with your principles Chrissie, and one would hope that the majority of photographers approached could be trusted, but there have been a number of what one might call ' well known' photographers who have subsequently been found to be less than honourable, which is totally unacceptable, if a trustworthy photographer can provide what's wanted great, research and recommendations crucial!

Posted 12 Feb 2014
Allinthemind
Photographer
Allinthemind
magpie1

Paying a photographer for images, is, of itself, no way to restrict the usage of the images, the photographer, author still holds copyright. You would have to have a legally binding contract drawn up and agreed by both parties. Best advice, as has been said if you are uncertain, don't do it!



If it's a private commission, then the commissioner has an expectation of privacy, ie. no publication. Unless agreed otherwise. Copyright is owned by the photographer typically but this does not allow publication by default.
Posted 12 Feb 2014
Edited by Allinthemind 12 Feb 2014
bryonyphotography
Photographer
bryonyphotog..
You would have to get the photographer to sign a copyright release, basically signing the images over to you- this still doesn't actually mean they won't use them, it just means that they are in breach of copyright if they do.

I think you would struggle to get a photographer to shoot tf under that premise though.



Posted 12 Feb 2014
The only certain way is to never pose for images you would not want anyone to see.

As pointed out there is a clause in the copyright law bestowing a 'moral right to privacy' in certain situations but this would not apply in a TFP shoot. Even studios generally have a clause allowing us to use images for our promotional purposes.NHS Choices website

We have done implied and higher sessions with models not sure if they want to go that far but at the end of the day they only have our word that we will not use those images if they decide it is not for them. Even if you have a photographer sign a 'contract' stating those images will only be used in certain situations how do you enforce it? Engaging a solicitor quickly escalates in terms of costs and even if you win it is already too late. Indeed the action may well generate far more publicity for those images than a brief appearance on some dodgy site.

Posted 12 Feb 2014
Thank you everyone for the response, though the point was missed. I get that some pics maybe circulated, what I am worried about is, for example, a set of pictures ie. from clothed to nude, being sold to an adult website.

I have spoken to a couple of photographers who seem set on achieving a set sequence of photos (dressed, lingerie, topless through to nude) rather than working on achieving one or two amazing pictures. Maybe this makes more sense as to my concerns.


Posted 13 Feb 2014
Allinthemind
Photographer
Allinthemind
All you need to do is have a written agreement in place before the shoot that states the terms of the shoot. If the photographer breaks the agreement, then you can sue.

Si


Posted 13 Feb 2014
Aberotica
Photographer
Aberotica
Chrissie_Red

I'm pretty sure though if she were to apprach a decent photographer and specifically state to him "I don't want these online, or you using them" then they would say "thats cool whatever". I have worked with a vew bodoir photographers in the past, they regurlarly use models to advertise their business and would only use a past client with express permission to do so. Also lets face it the photographer probably already has better images than those which would be shot at a client session anyway.

It would be terribly bad for a business to use images which the client wanted private, it would effect future bookings because nobody would trust the photographer (and rightly so if he/she posted images from a private session). So I do think if the OP goes to somebody who has a strong reputation and good images then she would be safe in the knowledge that the images wouldn't end up all over the internet but if worst came to the worst then she could quite easily destroy photographers business by making other people aware of his/her practices. Thats what I would do if I paid for a private session with a photographer and they released images or sold them to porn sites. Anyone who would do that in my eyes don't deserve to have the trust of clients.


Chrissie, as usual is spot on. I have run a boudoir photography side to my photography for the last 30 years and I would NEVER, I repeat NEVER use a clients photos without their written permission. Boudoir  photography depends on privacy and confidentiality and using a client's photos, which can sometimes be quite explicit, would ruin any repuatation the photographer has spent years building. Find a good photographer who will guarantee confidentiality - good luck.
Rob
Posted 13 Feb 2014


Thank you Allinthemind! A clear answer, right, i'll ask for a written agreement if i'm unsure.

Thank you everyone else, but this is the answer I needed x

Posted 13 Feb 2014
Glossypinklipstick
Photographer
Glossypinkli..
Any photographer worth his salt would not use an image you did not want used with a valid reason that's ethically prudent.I have 100% feedback in 400 shoots and across 4 sites. Choose your photographers carefully. There have recently been some horror stories of outstanding photographers being banned for inappropriate behaviour towards models.I agree everything in advance, send a detailed shoot plan and my word is my bond. I like to think I have a work ethic equal to or better than any professional. What's agreed is agreed -end of!

If you don't want it seen don't shoot it!
If you don't shoot adult it won't end up on an adult site, art nude is not generally worthy of adult sites.

The only way to limit usage is with a model release as already said and will not guarantee your image is hijacked.
The copyright generally resides with the photographer regardless, unless you have commissioned the shoot or stipulated the terms in an agreement. You cannot control this without some form of contract and the photographer has the right to do with the images as they wish. However if you check a model release wording it generally says something like-both may use the images for self promotion as long as neither portrays the other in a derogatory manner.

I had an image appear promoting another site but never found it(I was told). I also had a models image used for a false FB ID as a model. I sent them a request for £800 usage fee.It soon closed down.

Some photographers have an idea, stick with it and get the image they want. Others like me have a fluid shoot as often I don't get the image I had in my head, or the image does not work so I am adaptable.(often it's the first or last image that really hits the spot and sometimes an image comes from nowhere so I don't discard anything.
My one and only F.P.I on purpleport was an idea from a set where I asked the model to flick her hair and was one of the set. It was not planned and the hair flicking version has received lots of comments. It was not part of the original ideas and had we stuck to the shoot rigidly it would never have happened.

I also find that often models don't just want 1 look so I shoot a range of shots especially if the model is new and has limited styles and images. This is however a discussion and agreed in advance.

Quite often I "find" an image buried in a shot which I never had in mind in the first place. Being adaptable helps find these nuggets and I almost discarded a cracking head shot that just needed a very close crop!

Posted 14 Feb 2014
Bob
Photographer
Bob
shyandkinky88

right, i'll ask for a written agreement if i'm unsure.

I suggest that you do not presume that simply having a written agreement in place - even a properly drafted, signed and witnessed one - will give you full control over image use.

Even if a photographer plays fair, as most will, and complies fully with your agreement it is quite possible that somebody else could copy / steal images and use them in a context not originally intended or foreseen; for example, as has already been pointed out in the thread, malicious individuals could post digital copies on very tawdry websites where they are near impossible to remove. Images found on the internet could also be posted to embarrass you on social networking sites without the photographer knowing anything about it so suing him or her would be pointless.

In fact, unless you have a fair bit of money to spend on legal fees the option of suing somebody (after you and the photographer have effectively lost control over use of the image/s) might not even be feasible, and even if you did take the matter through the courts the damage would already have been done. In these days of instant copying and instant circulation, the sensible way for a person to control image usage is not to pose for any image they are unhappy to see plastered everywhere in any context at any time in the future.

Bob
Posted 14 Feb 2014
It seems this conversation has now been locked