Pocketwizards and the 6d 5dmkIII and 1DX debacle..

Pocketwizards and the 6d 5dmkIII and 1DX debacle..

14 posts
21 Jan 2014
smooth_image
Photographer
smooth_image
So I emailed pocketwizard to ask why these canon users are still awaiting firmware upgrades so the they have full TTL like the rest of the canon range. (I use the pocketwizards with my 5d mk1 and 7d effortlessly. But I am itching to get to work with my 6d and it seems pocketwizard are absolutely stumped by these cameras. So far we have manual use, nothing more.

even now all I am getting is 'we are working hard on this' but canon changed the way they communicate up through the hot shoe with the 6D and since they dont help us with any sort of communications we have to spend time reversing every signal that comes up through the shoe and write new code for it'  They have been doing that since before June last year !

It seems they cannot simply copy what canon have done as they are based in the usa and subject to stringent rules, whereas rival manufacturers based in china can simply copy the canon technology and they work flawlessly.

Is anyone else in this position with one of these 3 cameras ? Most frustrating.

Cheers

Graham


Posted 21 Jan 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Yep it's annoying, but thankfully I don't generally use TTL anyway and have two other bodies that work fine should I feel the need to use it.

It has ALWAYS been the way that all third party manufacturers have to reverse engineer the technology, and yes, patents/copyright is in place in most of the world (except China) so unless you buy that cheap stuff you're buggered.

There is of course the new Canon wireless TTL system, it does seem something of a coincidence that as that comes out the new cameras also have new code which mucks up the third party stuff.

Posted 21 Jan 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
The thing I find clever (in a scary way) is that Canon have engineered their TTL protocol in such a way that even 20+ years after the introduction of the EOS system they're still able to tweak the signals and confuse people trying to reverse engineer it while still ensuring compatibility for in-house gear,

I get the impression they did drop the ball with the 200mm f2 L though as that had problems with the 5D MK 3 iirc.

Posted 21 Jan 2014
Bill_M
Photographer
Bill_M
It has always been the same. In the pre-digital days I had Canon bodies and Sigma lenses. Then when the 300D, the first affordable DSLR, came out I bought it. My Sigma lenses, which had worked perfectly with my film bodies, would not work with the digital ones. Sigma could not update them to work. There is a lot of secret code which Canon do not disclose and which is difficult or impossible to reverse engineer, so there is never any guarantee that third part accessories will work with new Canon bodies.

Posted 5 Feb 2014
xtiggerx
Photographer
xtiggerx
Just read this Canon related issues....its well over my head ,i admit im not technically aware as many on PS are,but a manufacturer preventing use of third party equipment is surely short sighted....there are so many other quality producers of DSLR's why dont you all canon disgruntled owners sell your gear and buy another make? people power....and no i dont own a nikon....
Think this post will generate alot of flak towards me but its just a comment.If your not happy with a product...change it......

Posted 5 Feb 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
xtiggerx

Just read this Canon related issues....its well over my head ,i admit im not technically aware as many on PS are,but a manufacturer preventing use of third party equipment is surely short sighted....there are so many other quality producers of DSLR's why dont you all canon disgruntled owners sell your gear and buy another make? people power....and no i dont own a nikon.... Think this post will generate alot of flak towards me but its just a comment.If your not happy with a product...change it......


It's not short sighted at all, they've just introduced their own new wireless trigger system and many will opt for buying that (at great expense).

Which leads onto the next point about changing.... many people who are keen photographers (wither amateur or professional) have invested vast sums of money (tens of thousands in some cases) into not only bodies but lenses and other make-specific accessories and to buy new again would be crippling for most.  It's not just financial viability though that would prevent this, many like a particular system because of how it works or feels and changing may not be what they want, besides ALL systems have their cons as well as pros and this is just one of Canon's.
Posted 5 Feb 2014
xtiggerx
Photographer
xtiggerx
Hello RC...
"Which leads onto the next point about changing.... many people who are keen photographers (wither amateur or professional) have invested vast sums of money (tens of thousands in some cases) into not only bodies but lenses and other make-specific accessories and to buy new again would be crippling for most. It's not just financial viability though that would prevent this, many like a particular system because of how it works or feels and changing may not be what they want, besides ALL systems have their cons as well as pros and this is just one of Canon's."

thanks for a logical reply,yes i see this as being a reason to not change,but why do makers do this?,if they lowered the price of accessories they would make the money as they have a good owner base.Im looking to buy a flash but the manufacturers model is just too expensive so looking at Metz unit.seems ludicous that i have to buy a makers flash unit costing a third of the price i paid for the camera..which id use on only a few occasions..but thats life...

Posted 5 Feb 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
By lowering the price or endorsing third party equipment you are effectively weakening your brand position.

If you take the IBM PC for example, clones in all shapes/sizes/specs & prices were made and eventually IBM themselves were forced out of the market. If you look at Apple on the other hand, they've kept their main product line very strictly controlled, especially in making clones almost impossible to be a feasible business option and as such they have not only a strong brand but also profits that come with it.

There is also the monstrous sums of money poured into R&D with these companies and if some of your products have a technical edge over a competitor it makes sense to keep it a closely guarded secret. Copyrights & patents on software/code also make sharing/licensing technologies that extra bit more complicated.

Posted 5 Feb 2014
ChrisVS
Photographer
ChrisVS
smooth_image

So I emailed pocketwizard to ask why these canon users are still awaiting firmware upgrades so the they have full TTL like the rest of the canon range. (I use the pocketwizards with my 5d mk1 and 7d effortlessly. But I am itching to get to work with my 6d and it seems pocketwizard are absolutely stumped by these cameras. So far we have manual use, nothing more.

even now all I am getting is 'we are working hard on this' but canon changed the way they communicate up through the hot shoe with the 6D and since they dont help us with any sort of communications we have to spend time reversing every signal that comes up through the shoe and write new code for it'  They have been doing that since before June last year !

It seems they cannot simply copy what canon have done as they are based in the usa and subject to stringent rules, whereas rival manufacturers based in china can simply copy the canon technology and they work flawlessly.

Is anyone else in this position with one of these 3 cameras ? Most frustrating.

Cheers

Graham




Pardon me for being iggorunt, but are you using the Pocket Wizards to fire the camera shutter, or merely mounting them on the camera's hot-shoe to fire remote flash? If the latter, it's put me right off buying the 6d....
Posted 14 Feb 2014
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Does anyone if ishoot wireless triggers are available in the UK?

They look cool but I think they work on the same frequency as DECT phones so probably aren't legal for use in the UK.

Posted 14 Feb 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
ChrisVS
Pardon me for being iggorunt, but are you using the Pocket Wizards to fire the camera shutter, or merely mounting them on the camera's hot-shoe to fire remote flash? If the latter, it's put me right off buying the 6d....
He's referring to using the triggers on the hotshoe for triggering remote flash units. As long as you're happy with using them in 'classic' PocketWizard mode (ie. basic triggering without TTL) then the 6D works fine.
Posted 15 Feb 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
This is now made even more annoying with the fact that Profoto have succeeded in reverse-engineering the code to allow their TTL triggers to be used with their B1 TTL flash when used with the 1DX (announced this morning).  It really does seem like PW are dragging their feet over this, especially considering they're considered industry experts on triggering flash systems and Profoto have only been in this game 2-3 years (with TTL a recent addition).

Update at 3PM:  They've withdrawn it as it doesn't work properly
Posted 31 March 2014
Edited by RedChecker 31 March 2014
mantisphoto
Photographer
mantisphoto
It does seem silly that an expensive system like pocket wizards won't work, but something like a YN-622 works fine... IIRC full ttl.

I think they are fine for their purpose, at a fraction of the cost of the canon system.

Posted 31 March 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
mantisphoto

It does seem silly that an expensive system like pocket wizards won't work, but something like a YN-622 works fine... IIRC full ttl.


Are you absolutely sure they (YN-622) work with the 1Dx, 5D3 and 6D cameras?

Canon seem to have changed the communication protocols on these and it seems to have rendered mosy third party TTL devices useless, and indeed has the third party manufacturers stumped.
Posted 31 March 2014
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