Mark Duggan - Lawful killing

Mark Duggan - Lawful killing

82 posts
8 Jan 2014
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Strangely for me as i'm not a police fan at all but I agree. gun or not in his hand at the time, if you drive about the streets armed with a firearm there is a good reason for anyone not to wait to get shot at !
Carry a gun in the street, expect the worst from the police or any rival.

guess the riots will start again this evening
Posted 8 Jan 2014
mattharper
Photographer
mattharper
I agree but for a slightly different, or maybe more specific reason.
There is doubt over whether he had the gun in his hand, that doubt is based on a witness changing his story from saying he did to saying it was a phone.
The Lawful Killing is valid to me because any use of the gun he had just acquired would have been unlawful, as well as just having it in his possession and there was a good chance it may have been used to kill someone, therefore to me, nothing to do with colour, he got exactly what he deserved, but there is no way the family, friends and all of the community, far and wide will accept that.

Posted 8 Jan 2014
There is so much dodgy about this it's frightening to even think about.

Posted 9 Jan 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
I think it's a shame more of these wannbie gangsters aren't gunned down. Gun ownership probably wouldn't be so attractive if you knew you'd be dealt with that kind of justice.

I think the worst thing out of all of this is that even though it's been ruled as lawful, there'll still be never ending inquiries about what happened and what can be done to prevent it happening again. Personally I'd rather efforts were made to ensure the police are 100% confident they make the right choice and to be able to act with impunity once a decision has been made to take these thugs down.
Posted 9 Jan 2014
Edited by RedChecker 9 Jan 2014
Lisaliz
Model
Lisaliz
It was appalling how the jury was abused and intimidated by the mob representing Duggan's family. While they were entitled to their anger and disagreement with the verdict, their behaviour towards the jury and police was disgraceful.

Posted 9 Jan 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Lisaliz

It was appalling how the jury was abused and intimidated by the mob representing Duggan's family. While they were entitled to their anger and disagreement with the verdict, their behaviour towards the jury and police was disgraceful.


Don't forget this is probably the same mob that goaded people into the London riots in the first place.

Sadly we live in a culture where scum like this are often seen as little angels & victims of nonsense like poor upbringing etc. and IMO it's high time it all that rubbish stopped.
Posted 9 Jan 2014
skinz
Photographer
skinz
It's a real pity the police didn't chase after Stephen's killers (instead of brushing aside pleas) and give them the same brand of 'justice'.

Posted 9 Jan 2014
Edited by skinz 9 Jan 2014
skinz
Photographer
skinz
mattharper

I agree but for a slightly different, or maybe more specific reason. There is doubt over whether he had the gun in his hand, that doubt is based on a witness changing his story from saying he did to saying it was a phone. The Lawful Killing is valid to me because any use of the gun he had just acquired would have been unlawful, as well as just having it in his possession and there was a good chance it may have been used to kill someone, therefore to me, nothing to do with colour, he got exactly what he deserved, but there is no way the family, friends and all of the community, far and wide will accept that.


Death is such an easy thing to deserve it seems.
Posted 9 Jan 2014
silverk
Photographer
silverk
JadedRed
There is so much dodgy about this it's frightening to even think about.
What exactly is dodgy? The fact the inquiry was held in front of a jury of his peers and they still found it a lawful killing, the fact he had an illegal weapon in his car, the fact the officer who shot him was also filmed giving him first aid trying to keep him alive. The family were on TV last night saying it was the Tottenham Court Road Police that started the riots, go figure! I understand why they are upset, the truth hurts for them because they have to acknowledge their little baby was not as innocent as they thought and the prospect of getting vast sums in compensation has greatly reduced. Dont play with the big boys if it turns out you are a little boy who goes home crying to mummy! (or not as was the case this time).
Posted 9 Jan 2014
silverk

What exactly is dodgy? The fact the inquiry was held in front of a jury of his peers and they still found it a lawful killing, the fact he had an illegal weapon in his car, the fact the officer who shot him was also filmed giving him first aid trying to keep him alive. The family were on TV last night saying it was the Tottenham Court Road Police that started the riots, go figure! I understand why they are upset, the truth hurts for them because they have to acknowledge their little baby was not as innocent as they thought and the prospect of getting vast sums in compensation has greatly reduced. Dont play with the big boys if it turns out you are a little boy who goes home crying to mummy! (or not as was the case this time).


The fact way changed the story over and over. The witnesses all disagreeing with the police's description of events. The people involved questioning the investigation.

It seems like whenever we get police killling someone or some other terrible thing the result is always "no, it's okay, we're not evil, we're just really incompetent". And I'm not sure that is much more reassuring.
Posted 9 Jan 2014
Edited by JadedRed 9 Jan 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
JadedRed

The fact way changed the story over and over. The witnesses all disagreeing with the police's description of events.


There was an interesting documentary on TV a couple of years ago regarding whitness accuracy and how something out of the blue can cause confusion when recalling what happened.  They even performed an elaborate heist with guns being fired (while the witnesses were watching) and the variations in recollection of what happened varied wildly.

It may well be that tests have proven that if you have a rough idea of what was going on (as the police at the scene did) then their version of events is statistically more likely to be correct in comparison to those who were mere bystanders at the scene.
Posted 9 Jan 2014
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
JadedRed

The fact way changed the story over and over. The witnesses all disagreeing with the police's description of events. The people involved questioning the investigation.

It seems like whenever we get police killling someone or some other terrible thing the result is always "no, it's okay, we're not evil, we're just really incompetent". And I'm not sure that is much more reassuring.


Agreed!


Posted 9 Jan 2014
tripod
Photographer
tripod
If any good has come of this, it's that there's now 1 less scumbag on the streets.

Posted 9 Jan 2014
OldMaster
Photographer
OldMaster
Judge, opinion and justice served out by forum..as usual. Guess we can all wait for the tabloids to tell us the real truth about the trial!

How many on here were in the court then? That's what I thought!

Its clear the victim, in his aunt's own words apparently, was no angel but what is also clear is that the gun found by the police was some 20ft away. These are recorded facts. The unlawful killing verdict is perhaps questionable as he was unarmed when shot.

What I do respect is his remaining family requesting there be no retaliation or reaction on the street and I understand they will be going for appeal through the justice system..a brave venture for those that perhaps have not come from the higher socio-economic groups.

What it highlights again for me is that regardless of the police action in this particular case is that this country as a society is prepared to accept the existence of under classes, often parentless or one remaining parent families living with virtually no chance of ever finding "work" and probably been surviving on benefits for two to three generations. Can one wonder why they might create their own society within these confines.

Some may consider the establishment just popping along and shooting them as ok but in truth whilst we are prepared to accept the ever widening gap between the hugely wealthy and the poor, the scams of the rich, the politicians, the CEO's of privatised companies and the relentless unfair cuts to all welfare recipients and God Forbid the middle classes and not forgetting the sum outcome of this is the outrageous xenophobic reaction now to those who are perfectly entitled to come and work in this country actually producing a net gain to the GDP, we all fail to see the real issues?

Until some real effort, money and investment is put into the ever increasingly large areas of deprivation we will continue to see riots and gangs. Its the inevitable result of people feeling they are on the rubbish heap. But of course it won't happen because there is really no desire to make it happen. As long as "these people" only shoot and kill each other and not "the nice people" we can live with it? And if they really get out of order we can just go in and shoot them..it will have the support of the rest of society?

Posted 9 Jan 2014
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
What utter tosh!

Coming from a poor background is no excuse for becoming a violent/criminally minded thug.

Posted 9 Jan 2014
To reply to this thread you must be a member. Click here to join