Controversial Subject

Controversial Subject

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134 posts
27 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
I have got the ok to make this thread from the management of PS and I am very gratefull to them for allowing it, as it is quite contentious.

I would ask that any posts on this thread are made carefully and with consideration for the site and contain absolutely no naming of individuals or any direct reference to any particular company or individual.

Lets just say the actions of certain people within this industry and the inaction of others continue to shame us all.

The subject I refer to is described at some length in the link below. But please, be carefull what you post and please do not post any text from the link on here.

http://thereluctantpornographer.wordpress.com/
Posted 27 July 2013
Edited by WebModerator 29 July 2013
timbham
Photographer
timbham
Very brave of you bringing this out into the open Iain. Your third paragraph in this post is spot on!

Posted 27 July 2013
For_Arts_Sake
Photographer
For_Arts_Sake
Well done for speaking out. Guess I'm not surprised, but it's still disgusting.



Posted 27 July 2013
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Maybe it requires something like this post, and a few brave models who were subject to anything like this, to get the ball rolling with the police, just like the Savile case, it only takes 1, then 2 and ......then police have to act !

I assume if he comes for you Iain, that you have enough to protect yourself ! it may not be enough to expect models to out themselves to protect you ?

Posted 27 July 2013
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
Never heard of him or his business name, but if the girl did make an official complaint it would HAVE TO BE looked into.
The officers would also look into his past.
He will probably be on a register for life, so would be taken even more seriously.
They would then, undoubtedly, get others coming forward.
In fact, who knows, others may have already come forward and her story may be the missing piece of the jigsaw at finding justice.

Posted 27 July 2013
Edited by Sarge 27 July 2013
StreetModel
Photographer
StreetModel
This is a story which could be used as a lesson by any young girls thinking of taking a step into the adult world outside the happy bubble of Purestorm. No model should ever go to a shoot with a total stranger, however well known, without someone with her to support her if needed. Fame and notoriety are no safeguard as can be easily seen in the papers just this morning with a prison sentance being doubled for a man that most of us would have assumed was as safe as anyone could be.

I think models should assume all adult shoots have the possibility of taking a bad turn if they don't know the photographer and have no references from friends/places like this....

 
Posted 27 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Just a few personal observations...opinions only, based on my own experiences.

*The majority of photographers in every genre, particularly in the adult genre behave absolutely properly.

*Amateur photographers in particular, are usually entirely respectfull and behave appropriately.

*Professionals, not necessarilly in the adult genre, are the worst in my opinion, and hide behind a veil of respectability and often get away with it due to their apparant "untouchability"

*Models often do not help themselves and some models show little empathy or respect for their peers, by either not referrencing bad experiences accurately when asked privately by another model or telling blatant lies about their experience.

*Models are in a way as guilty as some of these serial offenders, taking the attitude that as long as it doesn't happen to them, its ok to work with known offenders, because either the images are particularly good or the financial rewards are particularly good.

*If I were a model I would not report an incident to the Police acting alone, I've seen first hand the futility of this, whatever the Police say. They are reluctant to gather evidence in this type of case, however a group of models acting together is a different matter, put it on a plate for the Police and they will act, they will have no choice. These offenders are normally serial offenders. Models acting alone have little chance of justice, models acting together have a very good chance.

*I'm very well aware I am outspoken and I'm setting myself up to be knocked down. I also know this post will get me the usual hate mail...to those who send it, you are wasting your time, its water of a ducks back.

*Despite one or two rumours/lies to the contrary, I can state catigorically that never in my career have I acted inappropriately and never will. So I can say what I like in the knowledge that there are no skeletons in my cupboard.

Posted 27 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
StreetModel
I think models should assume all adult shoots have the possibility of taking a bad turn if they don't know the photographer and have no references from friends/places like this.... 
I agree with you to an extent...what I dont want is a chaperone/no chaperone debate and also the "all photographers are perverts until proven otherwise" line deflecting from the issue. The industry in the UK is relativelly safe and is very safe if you take precautions. There are a few sex offenders who get away with it, due mainly to a combination of the industry turning a blind eye/the authorities not caring much and models reluctance to act together.
Posted 27 July 2013
photostore
Photographer
photostore
I kind of hope you are taken to task by him Iain !(as i have an inkling that is what your hoping for ?)

if he does come out fighting Iain, i'd like to see a fighting fund set up for your costs, this is not your personal crusade, it's everyones who shoots models !

I'd happily pledge the first £100.00

You probably have much higher earnings than myself, but i'd personally feel happier being attached to an industry that has a chance of being just a little bit "cleaner and safer for models" and with a better rep so 100.00 well spent

Posted 27 July 2013
Edited by photostore 27 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
photostore
I kind of hope you are taken to task by him Iain !(as i have an inkling that is what your hoping for ?) if he does come out fighting Iain, i'd like to see a fighting fund set up for your costs, this is not your personal crusade, it's everyones who shoots models ! I'd happily pledge the first £100.00 You probably have much higher earnings than myself, but i'd personally feel happier being attached to an industry that has a chance of being just a little bit "cleaner and safer for models" and with a better rep so 100.00 well spent
You are correct in the first line Thank you for your support, but I suspect your £100 is safe.
Posted 27 July 2013
Pict
Photographer
Pict
It seems to me to be a very courageous and laudable blog. However it concerns me that there seems to be a view that to report a serious sexual assault would inevitably lead to a, what he said vs what she said, investigation. There is much more that can and would be investigated.

However difficult it would be for her and as someone who has two teenage daughters I accept it would be extremely difficult, she should have been/be encouraged to report the crime.
The vast majority of the victims that have come forward in the celebrity cases recently have done so because they have felt their accounts would be taken seriously but someone needs to blow a whistle at some point. It is not the case that the predator would have to admit their crime.

I'd also take issue with the focus of some of your attentions (the agent). I doubt very much that the victim feels more anger towards them than the person who perpetrated the crime and so maybe your own views should be set aside for them to make their own decision..

Please don't misread this as an attack on you Iain, far from it. Well done indeed for highlighting this person to those of us who weren't aware. Just my take on your view on part of the story.

Posted 27 July 2013
Socialdisaster
Photographer
Socialdisaster
Good to see this post, though I managed to read it before on Other Site where I assume it was either removed by force or by agreement.

Posted 27 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
myshoot
It seems to me to be a very courageous and laudable blog. However it concerns me that there seems to be a view that to report a serious sexual assault would inevitably lead to a, what he said vs what she said, investigation. There is much more that can and would be investigated. However difficult it would be for her and as someone who has two teenage daughters I accept it would be extremely difficult, she should have been/be encouraged to report the crime. The vast majority of the victims that have come forward in the celebrity cases recently have done so because they have felt their accounts would be taken seriously but someone needs to blow a whistle at some point. It is not the case that the predator would have to admit their crime. I'd also take issue with the focus of some of your attentions (the agent). I doubt very much that the victim feels more anger towards them than the person who perpetrated the crime and so maybe your own views should be set aside for them to make their own decision.. Please don't misread this as an attack on you Iain, far from it. Well done indeed for highlighting this person to those of us who weren't aware. Just my take on your view on part of the story.
I dont take it as an attack at all, but perhaps it would help if I explain myself. I have first hand experience of industry related sexual assaults being reported. Evidence is difficult, nigh on impossible to obtain due to the circumstances in which they are committed, it differs from assaults outwith the industry and means about the only evidence potentially available are the testimonies from the parties present, almost exclusivelly the victim and the assailant. Therefore, I cannot say to any individual you should report it, that would be placing her in a situation of more distress with little hope of a positive outcome. HOWEVER, I did link to the Moorov Doctrine and have stated on numerious occassions that if victims would come together and make a joint complaint, then the chances of a successful prosecution would increase 100 fold. It is a very realistic way forward but it would take a brave victim to take the lead and make it happen, at present there seems to be no will to do this. Of course any serving Police Officer reading this could pass the details of both this thread and my blog to the appropriate department within the force area where the offences were committed and if there was any genuine will within the Police in that area to do something, I'm sure they would contact me. On your second point, any particular agent is not the focus of my attentions by any means, however as a particular agent may be a major cog in the wheel in that they may have access to new models with no experience and could effectivelly habitually and deliberately places them in a situation whereby they may be assaulted, then yes I think in certain circumstances an agent could be as guilty as the perpetrator and in law probably is. As for particular victims. If you have not met them it would be difficult for you to interpret the dynamic. A victim would be upset by the assault of course, but she may also be particularly angry that she was placed in that position initially. Had her agent warned her, the assault could have been avoided and she could still have got the fat fee. Unfortunately this is how a number of models think, if they are safe and can collect a big pay day, the circumstances of the work or whom is the paymaster is irrelevant. And evidence suggests that often should a model be aware of where she is going and how to act, then an assault is unlikely to occur.
Posted 27 July 2013
GrimeAndGlamour
Photographer
GrimeAndGlamour
Iain, would you mind if I linked your blogpost on my Facebook page?
We have a 'photographer' up here is one step away from this and I would hope at least one model would read it and take the possibilities on board.

Thank you in advance.

Posted 27 July 2013
IainT
Photographer
IainT
GrimeAndGlamour
Iain, would you mind if I linked your blogpost on my Facebook page? We have a 'photographer' up here is one step away from this and I would hope at least one model would read it and take the possibilities on board. Thank you in advance.
Yes, sure...that also goes for anyone else who wants to link to it..
Posted 27 July 2013
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