The Edgy Issue of Payment?

The Edgy Issue of Payment?

105 posts
28 Jan 2013
PB001
Photographer
PB001
I am noticing more and more casting calls, from models requiring payment from the photographers?  Unless my eyesight is flawed there are no casting calls from photographers requiring payment from models. (I may have missed any that're out there somewhere)

I appreciate that both model and photographer both need to earn a living in their chosen craft, but models please understand that it is equally justified for a photographer to ask for payment too, we are not charities and we too have studio overheads, equipment costs, marketing budgets, insurance costs, and more to pay for every year.

frown
Posted 28 Jan 2013
mattharper
Photographer
mattharper
This will be interesting


Posted 28 Jan 2013
Why don't you put up a paid casting call then?

Posted 28 Jan 2013
_Maz_
Model
_Maz_
JenSomerfield

Why don't you put up a paid casting call then?

+1 

Posted 28 Jan 2013
artistoli
Photographer
artistoli
PB001 you are totally correct, in principle - the problem is that this is not an 'industry' that is sustainable or that even 'works' for the vast majority of image creators. Images are becoming worthless money-wise (I know there will always be exceptions, but I am generalising to make the point), and this will become more so as technology moves on, people expectations for free stuff get even more prolific and the accumulation of images in existence creeps above all imaginable volumes.
Posted 28 Jan 2013
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
PB001
I am noticing more and more casting calls, from models requiring payment from the photographers?  Unless my eyesight is flawed there are no casting calls from photographers requiring payment from models. (I may have missed any that're out there somewhere) I appreciate that both model and photographer both need to earn a living in their chosen craft, but models please understand that it is equally justified for a photographer to ask for payment too, we are not charities and we too have studio overheads, equipment costs, marketing budgets, insurance costs, and more to pay for every year.
It's a market - people buy and sell according to the market. This is not really a site for professional photographers - whilst there are some professional photographers of models on this site, most of them are working in the adult market. There are apparently lots of professional photographers on this site but most of them don't specialise in model photography or make any income from model photography. This site and others on the internet help to operate an efficient market. There are plenty of photographers (many competent) who are prepared to photograph models for no charge so why would a model pay for photos which are no more likely to be competent. I think photographers who get money off modelling hopefuls are more likely to get money from girls who have no hope of getting anywhere (but with delusions of fame and fortune) - whilst there may be some on here these 'models' can be found easier on Facebook where there is less sensible advice.
Posted 28 Jan 2013
PB001
Photographer
PB001
I don't consider TFP/TFCD to be the swapping of something for FREE, I consider it an equal exchange of a chargeable skill.

If I want a models time and skill I have no problem with paying for it, that payment comes via said model accepting my time and skill in exchange. As Artistoli mentions above we are fast becoming an unsustainable industry.

I work mainly in the commercial area, working for businesses and companies for their marketing purposes, when those assignments lend themselves to the bringing in of models, then I am quite happy to pay whatever going rate happens to apply. Sadly I'm finding ever more so that companies are cutting costs across the board too and will not budget for such perceived extravagance, even though I often suggest they do.

For these reasons I perceive I may be considered an observant outsider, having need of models as much as everyone else on this forum, still as I've said I don't consider any models time and skill as less valuable as my own so consider TFCD/TFP an equitable transaction just as valuable as cash.

Certainly NOT as a FREEBIE each way.

Posted 28 Jan 2013
Bob
Photographer
Bob
Most photographers on sites like this who expect models will offer to pay them are possibly as delusional as the fantasist who dreams that the prettiest girl in the nightclub will buy his drink when the place is full of other guys more than willing to keep her glass full for little more than a flutter of her eyelashes in their direction.

Methinks somebody needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

Bob
Posted 28 Jan 2013
Edited by Bob 28 Jan 2013
1919_Images
Photographer
1919_Images
These sites are really set up for amateur photographers and models to work together and in that scenario its only the models likely to get paid, there are professionals on both sides here but they are a minority.
I've noticed that a good number of photographers who manage to progress through to the standard where some models consider them worth paying for portfolio shoots leave sites like this altogether, I dont know why as I'm not in that position but perhaps that explains why there arent many photographers getting paid by models on here.

Posted 28 Jan 2013
Edited by 1919_Images 28 Jan 2013
LadylikeMedia
Photographer
LadylikeMedi..
Generally if I'm making money from the shoot I pay the model, if I'm not (ie its for arts sake) I TF*.

Posted 28 Jan 2013
Star_Shots
Photographer
Star_Shots
It's worse when a Facebook "model" add's you and expects a free shoot. They often have nothing to offer skills wise or looks wise. Fortunately they generally terminate the conversation when a fee is mentioned.

Posted 28 Jan 2013
Renton
Photographer
Renton
In theory your right. But in reality not, this is a modeling site, there are a few experienced model, some hobbyist models, some dilusional people and a lot inbetween. Now only really a newby will pay for shots, and they will seek out the best photographers to do this. The best photographers are not going to put a casting up to get paid IMHO, it looks bad for the rep (again in my opinion). I would personally never charge a model for shots, if they have a look that I like then its good for the book and I want it, if I am getting paid they are my client and most the time what I want fro my book is drastically different to what a model might want. I find it better to charge my commercial clients because lets face it thay have a butt load more money than the average model looking for new shots, and they are less demanding.

Just my 2p
Posted 28 Jan 2013
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
PB001
I don't consider TFP/TFCD to be the swapping of something for FREE, I consider it an equal exchange of a chargeable skill. If I want a models time and skill I have no problem with paying for it, that payment comes via said model accepting my time and skill in exchange. As Artistoli mentions above we are fast becoming an unsustainable industry. I work mainly in the commercial area, working for businesses and companies for their marketing purposes, when those assignments lend themselves to the bringing in of models, then I am quite happy to pay whatever going rate happens to apply. Sadly I'm finding ever more so that companies are cutting costs across the board too and will not budget for such perceived extravagance, even though I often suggest they do. For these reasons I perceive I may be considered an observant outsider, having need of models as much as everyone else on this forum, still as I've said I don't consider any models time and skill as less valuable as my own so consider TFCD/TFP an equitable transaction just as valuable as cash. Certainly NOT as a FREEBIE each way.
So if you do TFP how do you declare it on your tax return ?
Posted 28 Jan 2013
Jackass
Photographer
Jackass
I have no problems paying a model for her time, it's just the unrealistic expectations so many of them have in how much they can expect. It's rare for me to pay over £25 an hour as it simply becomes not worth it as it's just a hobby to me. Consequently, I find myself shooting less often these days.

Posted 28 Jan 2013
For me it because potentially (and this obviously not always applicable and not always to ammeters - although few send them into nuts lol) the photographer will be making money from the photos If I pay YOU the photographer what would I do with those images to make my side of the profit? Obviosuly a lot of pros have a budget and within that take a cut for themselves, pay the models and the overheads they make incur So for me its not a case of not wanting to pay I just have no need for images that I can't myself then turn a profit on? I was lucky enough that I was given images from photographers as well as being paid and the only TF shoot I have done was with a photographer I offered to pay because I specifically wanted to work with him and he very kindly offered me TF - so if there is something I want I will pay for it but so far I haven't needed to Like others have said maybe put out a casting and see what happens!
Posted 28 Jan 2013
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