why can't people understand

why can't people understand

27 posts
9 Jan 2013
Does anybody else get increasingly frustrated with having to keep explaining to people who don't model why you're happy to work on tfp/cd basis. It just seems that everytime i do a tfp shoot someones there having ago saying well you should be getting paid , why you getting your bits and bobs out fo nothing, or  the photographers only doing it for a perve! Sometimes it's like trying to talk to a brick wall the amount of times i've repeated because i enjoy it and when i shoot it gives me time to myself to do something i enjoy   , i want to learn and get better. Alot of people just don't seem to understand i know alot of girls and some male family members seem to think that somone snaps a camera and you should get paid, i even put up a joint casting the other month for a girl who didn't have a portfolio and was looking to join here who then let me down when it wasn't paid. Also was trying to do a charity calender and had girls saying they want paid even though its for charity i'm sorry but isn't the whole point of doing something for charity is that it's only the charity that benifits.   Was wondering if anybody had a way of dealing with this kind of negative attidude or any good responses that won't get me a smack in the mouth .

Posted 9 Jan 2013
1919_Images
Photographer
1919_Images
Unfortunately we live in a world where some people only see £££ signs with everything, if they dont understand its just a hobby you enjoy doing it's their problem really.

Posted 9 Jan 2013
ph_oto
Photographer
ph_oto
I think in general people outside the industry just don't understand it at all and unfortunately they never will.
Best thing I could suggest is to look at it from the other side of the coin and tell them that you are getting images in exchange for your time instead of having to pay a photographer to take them.

Too many young people see some of the celebrity "models" etc. and this seems to make them think that modelling will give them access to a huge pot of money, we know different of course.

The other answer of course it not to tell them anything, after all it's not their business really.


Posted 9 Jan 2013
Socialdisaster
Photographer
Socialdisast..
Same reason they can't believe a) I'm not trying to fuck every model I meet and b) that my g/f "lets" me do this.



Posted 9 Jan 2013
PeterH
Photographer
PeterH
It's understandable that people will see your desire to strip naked and cavort for middle-aged men for nothing more than enjoyment is both something that is sexual for you, and something that only money would persuade them to do. Equally, men taking pictures of young naked girls for enjoyment will also be seen as having a sexual (or pervy) element about it.

You probably draw the line somewhere, and have an 'only for money' or 'no money would get me to do that' for some things other people enjoy doing for free.

All you can do is tell people the truth, and either they accept it, and you, or they don't. You're not going to change peoples opinions most of the time.
Posted 9 Jan 2013
tomhl
Photographer
tomhl
Great to read you are doing modelling because you enjoy it and have a passion for it, and it's not about the money.
Posted 9 Jan 2013
JeromeRazoir
Photographer
JeromeRazoir
Because thick they are.

Because a nice person you are regarding work that for charity is and mean buggers is them some of.

Posted 9 Jan 2013
Spike
Photographer
Spike
Even though photography is my only source of income I will use TF shoots to experiment<try new ideas & just because I enjoy it - sometimes to the bafflement of my wife.

As for the charittee aspect, I do work for free for a couple of charitees I actively support, sometimes its photography other times standing around with a collection bucket.

It should however be remembered that charitees are a form of business who in some cases employ well paid marketing assistants & when these expecty me to work for free I politely decline.

See http://shouldiworkforfree.com/
Posted 9 Jan 2013
Hugh
Photographer
Hugh
Tell them it's art, and therefore they wouldn't understand.

Works for me.

Posted 9 Jan 2013
eosfan
Photographer
eosfan
tomhl
Great to read you are doing modelling because you enjoy it and have a passion for it, and it's not about the money.
+1 Dave
Posted 9 Jan 2013
natalieamanda

Does anybody else get increasingly frustrated with having to keep explaining to people who don't model why you're happy to work on tfp/cd basis. It just seems that everytime i do a tfp shoot someones there having ago saying well you should be getting paid , why you getting your bits and bobs out fo nothing, or  the photographers only doing it for a perve! Sometimes it's like trying to talk to a brick wall the amount of times i've repeated because i enjoy it and when i shoot it gives me time to myself to do something i enjoy   , i want to learn and get better. Alot of people just don't seem to understand i know alot of girls and some male family members seem to think that somone snaps a camera and you should get paid, i even put up a joint casting the other month for a girl who didn't have a portfolio and was looking to join here who then let me down when it wasn't paid. Also was trying to do a charity calender and had girls saying they want paid even though its for charity i'm sorry but isn't the whole point of doing something for charity is that it's only the charity that benifits.   Was wondering if anybody had a way of dealing with this kind of negative attidude or any good responses that won't get me a smack in the mouth .



I did a blog about this very topic 2/3 years ago.
Thing is that even years into modelling other people still think that money makes everything ok.

My family would always say "hope you were paid for that shoot" - If I said no then they would say "well you are mad", they didn't understand how things worked. They had no idea what a portfolio was all about, even when I did start getting paid then I would get the "they must be perves then if they are going around paying a model to get naked for them".

Further down the line I remember after a pretty rubbish shoot where everything went wrong - images didn't look great, photographer was a dickhead and it left me feeling terribly down about everything. I did speak to a few friends and explained how I was feeling and rather than support me they said "well as long as you got paid" - yes I did but it didn't make the experience any less shitty because money exchanged hands. If I could have given the money back to not have had the experience I would have in an instant.

Rule number 1 - don't get friends involved, I made that mistake. I arranged a shoot for me and a friend, the morning of the shoot came and she just didn't bother showing up. I asked her what happened and she said "well its not like I want to be a professional" so to her it didn't matter that she let a photographer down and it didn't matter that I may have looked guilty by association because it was me who arranged it. If friends want to get into modelling I suggest they join the websites, I might help them take a few pictures of themselves but I wouldn't be recommending her/him to any photographers unless I know they are serious about it.

Its difficult, some people do not understand. They don't understand that photographers can also be paid too, then again I bet some photographers friends and family looks at them strangely when they mention they have paid for a model. I know some of my family looked at me strangely when I mentioned needing to keep some money aside for a model shoot - you would think they would know better really.

If you are happy learning and getting better there is no shame at all in doing that, i spent a great deal of time working on my portfolio and getting experience under my belt before I even considered making any money from it. I know some people can get paid bookings after a couple of shoots, thats good on them. I got offers but I wasn't comfortable, I honestly didn't have the confidence in myself that others did and that was ok. You do whatever makes you feel good, if whatever you are doing is working and financially you can afford the clothing upkeep/makeup/travel then don't be put off by what others say.

You are also in a fantastic position to really be selective with those you work with, if you are working collaboratively then only take on the very best offers you are given - sadly some photographers do pounce on newer models who offer TF - I had this but with time you learn to spot them and you are better able to judge image quality and what looks good or doesn't in a portfolio. Work with those who are passionate about what they are creating, build up some friendships - I had about 5 photographers I worked with every month for about a year and together with them I grew as a model as did they as a photographer they also valued my input and let me bring out my creative side and try the styles I wanted to try. 

xx

Posted 9 Jan 2013
Edited by Chrissie_Red 9 Jan 2013
i understand what you're saying. there are some things in life that are worthwhile to do and money doesnt come into it. e.g. I would love to take part in a charity calender e.g. Help for Heroes or any cancer charity and model for free for that. However...that wouldnt be nude, that would probably be clothed or at least glamour. If there are any charities looking on here...please take note you have some willing volunteers!!!

Posted 9 Jan 2013
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Why is it important that people should understand why you enjoy what you enjoy?

Sometimes it's just better all round to handle such things on a need-to-know basis.

Posted 9 Jan 2013
LaurenceJPower
Photographer
LaurenceJPow..
natalieamanda

Does anybody else get increasingly frustrated with having to keep explaining to people who don't model why you're happy to work on tfp/cd basis. It just seems that everytime i do a tfp shoot someones there having ago saying well you should be getting paid , why you getting your bits and bobs out fo nothing, or  the photographers only doing it for a perve! Sometimes it's like trying to talk to a brick wall the amount of times i've repeated because i enjoy it and when i shoot it gives me time to myself to do something i enjoy   , i want to learn and get better. Alot of people just don't seem to understand i know alot of girls and some male family members seem to think that somone snaps a camera and you should get paid, i even put up a joint casting the other month for a girl who didn't have a portfolio and was looking to join here who then let me down when it wasn't paid. Also was trying to do a charity calender and had girls saying they want paid even though its for charity i'm sorry but isn't the whole point of doing something for charity is that it's only the charity that benifits.   Was wondering if anybody had a way of dealing with this kind of negative attidude or any good responses that won't get me a smack in the mouth .


I think that if you are doing a job where the results were definitely being published in a magazine or used for advertising then you should be paid. If however it is for portfolio use by all parties, AND you beleive that the results will be to your benefit, then fine work for prints/DVD. This is what virtually all models used to do back in the 90's, their agency would give them the name of a photographer who was testing and a shoot would be arranged. I did loads of them over the years. Finally if work is of a speculative nature, with no final use determined it is up to the model. Again the deciding factor should be whether the images will be of use in their book.

What I really object to is magazines using images for which they have not paid. I'm not talking about copy right infringement, that is simply theft. I'm talking about images submitted on the basis that the mere fact of publication is good for everyone. THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT ARE THE PUBLISHERS! Did the editor work for nothing? what about the writers? Then there's the printer. Finally we have the advertisers, surely they paid out on the basis that due to the circulation figures provided by the publisher their name would be seen by lots os potential clients?

You write about a charity calender, well the girl/guy may be well known enouth that the item sells on the back of their inclusion, however they do not personally support that charity, or if they do, by receiving payment then using gift aid, the charity can actually benefit from the tax relief given.
Posted 9 Jan 2013
Mansell
Photographer
Mansell
People today know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Posted 10 Jan 2013
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