I left neg feedback for 3 shoots for same model - only latest one appl...

I left neg feedback for 3 shoots for same model - only latest one applied

17 posts
14 July 2012
PJAMedia
Photographer
PJAMedia
Hi,

I have been let down for the 3rd time by the same model this weekend. My assiatant e-mailed her the day before to check all was OK, and several hours later we received a reply to advise that she wouldn't be coming due to family issues. This is despite the fact that a second model was booked for that shoot and I had purchased (with this model's knowledge) a flight ticket for the second model. Twice last year this same model failed to show for shoots we had arranged - but then she had a different profile on PS, and I did leave negative feedback at the time after that second failure. Now she has a different profile, so my negative feedback from that time doesn't show.

After the first no-show, in June 2011 she contacted me by e-mail saying that there were medical issues with a family member, and she apologised, saying she did not have access to a PC, so couldn't contact me - despite the fact she had my number and had logged on to PS that day.  I had been calling her in the lead up to the shoot without any answer. Anyway I gave her the benefit of the doubt and re-arranged the shoot a few weeks later  (July 2011). Well that date came and went, and again she didn't show. Then later in the day of the supposed shoot, I received an e-mail suggesting it was from her father, and also suggesting that she had been in hospital and apologising that she couldn't make the shoot. Strange thing was, the text in that message was written with exactly the same gramatical flaws that her own e-mails are written in, and I could also see that she had logged on to PS that day of the planned shoot - despite the fact she claimed to be in hospital!

So the reason for this post - given that this model now has failed to show for a 3rd time, I feel obliged to leave negative feedback, and also negative feedback to reiterate those first 2 no-shows last year (given she now has a new profile, and so my previous feedback is lost). I posted those 3 negative feedbacks a few moments ago, but only the latter of the three appears against her profile. This therefore is not alowing me to make a representaive statement as to the poor reliability of this model.

Not only has this model let herself down, but she has also let a second model down, and has caused me great expense in both lost income and flight costs. I feel therefore that I should be allowed to leave appropriate feedback in some what which adequately describes this model for others to heed!

Can you please assist with this?

Thanks and best regards,

Paul A
Posted 14 July 2012
Bob
Photographer
Bob
PJAMedia

This therefore is not alowing me to make a representaive statement as to the poor reliability of this model.

Which is more worrying - the "poor reliability" of the model or the common sense failure of somebody who gives three chances? I work on the principle of once bitten, twice shy. As this site is packed with models who are looking for work, why bother chasing somebody who has let you down not once but twice?
Bob
Posted 14 July 2012
Purple_Girl
Photographer
Purple_Girl
PJAMedia

I posted those 3 negative feedbacks a few moments ago, but only the latter of the three appears against her profile. This therefore is not alowing me to make a representaive statement as to the poor reliability of this model.


You can't post multiple feedbacks on one profile, you can only post once and then update/change that same bit of feedback again later if you so choose, that's why it's only showing up once. One blue face shows you weren't happy, there's no real need for 3 in a row.
Posted 14 July 2012
PJAMedia
Photographer
PJAMedia
Bob

Which is more worrying - the "poor reliability" of the model or the common sense failure of somebody who gives three chances?

Bob, you are right - it was a stupid move in hindsight. I did tell the model last year that I would never work with her again, but my assistant spotted her thinking she was a new model as she cambe back on PS with a different name - she got interest from a client and arranged the shoot, only for me to realise it was the same gal who let me down before. As the clients were paying good money for the shoot, and wanted her specifically, then I just kept my fingers crossed that she had turned over a new leaf. Apparently that isn't the case!

Bob

As this site is packed with models who are looking for work, why bother chasing somebody who has let you down not once but twice?
Bob

This site is not packed with models who my client wants me to shoot unfortunately. Most of the good models I have shot already!

Purple_Girl

One blue face shows you weren't happy, there's no real need for 3 in a row.

It's not 3 in a row - its 3 over a 12 month period for 3 different shoots she failed to show for. If a model has one bad feedback it could be construde as a misunderstanding or bad organisation, but a one-off. If she has 3 over a duration then it highlights to other potential interest that she is unreliable. It's important to be able to accurately appraise models on their performance, as it is photographers. Fortnately most of the feedback I leave is positive, for hardworking, ambitious models. If somebody is a trouble maker then others need to be warned - I would hate to think others were also out of pocket because it wasn't possible to warn them appropriately.

Im also a little concerned that the model in question was able to remove her old profile which contained negative feedback, and start afresh with a new profile - talk about wiping the slate clean!

Cheers, Paul
Posted 14 July 2012
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
I think the feedback system doesn't allow you to do three separate feedback statements on one person. The last one you make always overwrites the previous ones, so if you shot a model 2 years ago and left feedback and then shot her again today and left feedback, the feedback from today would totally replace the feedback you left previously. If you want to retain the previous feedback you need to cut and paste the text from it into the feedback box and then add your new feedback. Usually I add headings like "Third Shoot: Feedback Second Shoot: Feedback First Shoot: Feedback but you can only have one smiley or unhappy face for the whole feedback entry, which is your most recent view of the model.

Posted 14 July 2012
Edited by HowardJ 14 July 2012
PJAMedia
Photographer
PJAMedia
HowardJ

I think the feedback system doesn't allow you to do three separate feedback statements on one person. The last one you make always overwrites the previous ones, so if you shot a model 2 years ago and left feedback and then shot her again today and left feedback, the feedback from today would totally replace the feedback you left previously. If you want to retain the previous feedback you need to cut and paste the text from it into the feedback box and then add your new feedback. Usually I add headings like "Third Shoot: Feedback Second Shoot: Feedback First Shoot: Feedback but you can only have one smiley or unhappy face for the whole feedback entry, which is your most recent view of the model.


Howard, thanks for the reply. I do realise what you are saying is true. I was posting it in this forum as I want the admins to realise that this is essentially a flaw in their policy which needs adressing.

Thanks, Paul
Posted 14 July 2012
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Isn't it covered by the first post on http://www.purestorm.com/forum/readThread.aspx?id=74976
Posted 14 July 2012
PJAMedia
Photographer
PJAMedia
HowardJ

Isn't it covered by the first post on http://www.purestorm.com/forum/readThread.aspx?id=74976


Howard - that depends what you mean by 'it'.

That refrers to models creating a new profile to mask bad feedback on a prior one. My statement above suggests that we sould be entitled to leave a feedback for each shoot booked - so 3 shoots, 3 feedbacks. I presumed that's why there was a date attributed with leaving feedback. I mean if we were allowed to leave only one, then we should be able to select the date each time we update it and still have references to the previous dates in the comments, showing how many times we left feedback and the dates of each.
Posted 14 July 2012
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
PJAMedia

Howard - that depends what you mean by 'it'.

That refrers to models creating a new profile to mask bad feedback on a prior one. My statement above suggests that we sould be entitled to leave a feedback for each shoot booked - so 3 shoots, 3 feedbacks. I presumed that's why there was a date attributed with leaving feedback. I mean if we were allowed to leave only one, then we should be able to select the date each time we update it and still have references to the previous dates in the comments, showing how many times we left feedback and the dates of each.

Yeah, I can see your point and it's probably easier to implement the way you've specified it although it uses a little more storage as you end up with 3 feedback records each with their own notes..... sorry the geek in me is coming out...
Posted 14 July 2012
It's not feedback like eBay, but a recommendation. Either you do, or you do NOT recommend the model. Say I have 80 feedbacks, that is for 80 individuals that do recommend me. Maybe you could get the other model she was letting down to give her a bad ref? Regardless it is against the rules to make new accounts to dodge feedbacks.

Posted 14 July 2012
Sarge
Photographer
Sarge
I agree with Jen, if, for instance, you arranged 3 shoots with her, she stands you up for the first so you leave negative feedback and dont recommend her. She then turns up for the second shoot, so you leave positive feedback and do recommend her. The thrid one she no shows again, so now you dont recommend her.
So you have recommended her once and not recommended her twice. Which one is the true reflection? Do you recommend her or dont you? This will be more confusing for people, surely.

Posted 14 July 2012
PJAMedia
Photographer
PJAMedia
Sarge, I can see where you are coming from. Maybe a better solution would be that once you have left initial feedback, then any follow up feedback would just add to that original feedback entry. So for each member leaving feedback there would be a single panel containing all feedback they have left. At the the head of the panel this would display member details and whether the model was recommended or not then underneath there would be details for each shoot showing whether the model turned up or not:, with text for each oftese sub-entries. Then when a new shoot is added, the member has a chance to update the recommendation status.

To be honest, i think we are probably wasting our time discussing this as the admin probably won't give any ideas mentioned here the time of day.

Posted 15 July 2012
Edited by PJAMedia 15 July 2012
Maybe we could have degrees of not recommending people

Blue Face - the first time you dont recommend them

Purple Face - the second time

Bright Red Face with steam coming out of its ears - the third time

Posted 15 July 2012
You can't leave 3 separate blue faces but I believe you can add notes under the one negative*. That way you can leave details expressing your disappointment and warn other photographers that she may not only let them down once but three times.
* Moderator Advisory : Comments may NOT be left with Negative Recomendations
Posted 15 July 2012
Edited by WebModerator 15 July 2012
anthonyh
Photographer
anthonyh
I have shot with one model ten times (she has kept a record it seems!) and would be happy to have left 10 positive references.....but can't so all I do is put a new one on occasions.

I guess my latest could refer back to the number of positive shoots in the same way that yours could refer back to the negatives...in essence both would be giving an overview of our experience with a particular model over time.
Posted 15 July 2012
Edited by anthonyh 15 July 2012
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