Legal advice

Post by HMansfield on 15 September 2011 13:53

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:53:54 GMT

HMansfield
Doesn't anyone find it strange that all the comments saying how stupid the girl must be, and basically doubting that it could possibly be true are from photographers.
Just to clarify, I'm actually doubting that the girl was as naive and stupid as is being implied, and think there may be other elements to this story that have not yet been brought forth.

Logged in this morning to find I'd been sent a link to a video on YouTube matching this discription. If it is indeed the video, and the girl in question is one of those appearing in it, then there is indeed more to it than first claimed.

Of course, someone could be trolling me, but even if it's not the correct video, I'm still of a suspicious mind (uh-huh-huh).

Post by Bayrunner on 15 September 2011 13:36

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:36:25 GMT

peterbuchanphoto

.... Especially since the YouTube vid can't be that bad as they don't allow nudity.....

Remember there are a lot of similar sites that DO allow nudity - and a hell of a lot more than nudity, and some bear names derived from YouTube.

Post by peterbuchanphoto on 15 September 2011 11:16

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 11:16:22 GMT

Hey am just offering up options. Personally id say chalk it up to experience and move on. Especially since the YouTube vid can't be that bad as they don't allow nudity. Positive spin on it is if those have been published then she can say she has been which seems to be a big deal if the success stories forum is anything to go by

Post by Tansy_Blue on 15 September 2011 10:37

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:37:42 GMT

OR, instead of making empty threats, she could just move on and get on with her life.

Post by peterbuchanphoto on 15 September 2011 10:19

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:19:13 GMT

Did cross my mind but it is more of a bluff... though yes he can call her on it in which case it wont work. Another alternative if he isnt head honcho at the company is writing to the man/woman in charge politely highlighting what their man is up to on company time and what potential damage he can cause to them?

Post by MzKatherine on 15 September 2011 10:13

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 10:13:25 GMT

peterbuchanphoto
Since she is concerned what this might do to her good name and repuatation with these photos and videos knocking about. .. Why can she not imply to him that the damage done to his reputation and his companys reputation should she go to the media with this would be far worse? Salacious stories like this are tabloids bread and butter, if hes named and shamed and his friends/family got wind of what he was up to I am sure it would not go well for the little weasle.
Otherwise big scary bloke knocking on his door and asking politely whilst cracking his knuckles innocently.

incidentally the stuff which is posted on youtube cannot be nude otherwise they would take it down in no time so I am doubtful about it being really that bad and this is more that the girls just p*ssed that she didnt get her copies

This is one of those suggestions that sounds great until you think about the reality of it; i.e. she goes to the media, they happily publish the story but, being tabloids, sensationalise it in such a way that she comes out of it looking even worse than she already feels. Which then ruins her prospects for working with other producers as they'll fear reprisals for the slightest misunderstanding, not to mention risking some of those salacious images making their way into the hands of the tabloids. Best case scenario- admit she screwed up, move on and hope it dies down. Ultimately (as I already mentioned) there is no legal case here as she did what she did willingly and, unless the 'producers' are making money from the images they took of her,then it's one to chalk up to experience.

Post by peterbuchanphoto on 15 September 2011 09:49

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:49:10 GMT

Since she is concerned what this might do to her good name and repuatation with these photos and videos knocking about. .. Why can she not imply to him that the damage done to his reputation and his companys reputation should she go to the media with this would be far worse? Salacious stories like this are tabloids bread and butter, if hes named and shamed and his friends/family got wind of what he was up to I am sure it would not go well for the little weasle.
Otherwise big scary bloke knocking on his door and asking politely whilst cracking his knuckles innocently.

incidentally the stuff which is posted on youtube cannot be nude otherwise they would take it down in no time so I am doubtful about it being really that bad and this is more that the girls just p*ssed that she didnt get her copies

Post by designerhugh on 15 September 2011 08:17

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:17:25 GMT

At present we only have the models point of view on the situation, the producer may have a different point of view on what is actually been discussed so difficult to establish the facts.

Saying that the model is under 18 when she is not could would be a serious matter and could be seen as black mail.

I think the only was forward would be for the model to speak with a solicitor and get proper legal advice.

Hugh

Post by Bayrunner on 15 September 2011 07:58

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 07:58:37 GMT

One suspects that the 'collaborative projects' include rather a large amount of assaults on senior clergy.... ie bishop bashing, monkey spanking,... call it what you will.

I'm afraid I side with those who suggest that she should accept that she has been wickedly duped by someone who in all probability isn't what he said he was in the first place, and she should move on and hope that this error of judgement doesn't come back to haunt her in the future.

The waters of verbal contracts are far too murky and easy for him to defend, and indeed further defame her, that she will bring more stress and grief onto herself by pursuing this.

Just hope she doesn't run for political office or become a public face in the future - or at least is prepared to face the potential fallout from these images coming to light if she does.

Post by mph on 15 September 2011 06:17

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 06:17:18 GMT

GTOPhotographic

Two points raised here, 1st being was she under 18 or have a mental capacity which is recognised by a doctor which states she has a mental age of under 18, if yes to either then an offence has been committed and report this to the police. If she is over 18 and carried out the shoot of her own free will, then she may have been a little niave and lessons need to be learnt - if you are going to do something you do not normally do i.e. take off clothes and be photographed, then get it signed up on paper, it doesn't have to be in legal speak, just in plain english what both parties will get out of it, then you will be able to seek civil action against this person/s. However all is not lost, personally a last letter/email/voicemail/telephone/text message to the person stating that they have not fullfilled their part of a verbal contrat, and as such this is not fair, therefore they will seek civil action against said person (just say it, don't do it - it will cost and you will get no where) then also add that the said person has manipulated young girl to have their clothes taken off for filming, which is clearly not right and as that is the case she will report said person to the police. (do it, tell the police in person at a police station exactly what happened and request they store the information you give them on their systems. (if there have been other incidents this may be the straw on the camels back which now breaks) nige

As he has already said she was 18........................

Post by GTOPhotographic on 15 September 2011 06:05

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 06:05:54 GMT

Two points raised here, 1st being was she under 18 or have a mental capacity which is recognised by a doctor which states she has a mental age of under 18, if yes to either then an offence has been committed and report this to the police. If she is over 18 and carried out the shoot of her own free will, then she may have been a little niave and lessons need to be learnt - if you are going to do something you do not normally do i.e. take off clothes and be photographed, then get it signed up on paper, it doesn't have to be in legal speak, just in plain english what both parties will get out of it, then you will be able to seek civil action against this person/s. However all is not lost, personally a last letter/email/voicemail/telephone/text message to the person stating that they have not fullfilled their part of a verbal contrat, and as such this is not fair, therefore they will seek civil action against said person (just say it, don't do it - it will cost and you will get no where) then also add that the said person has manipulated young girl to have their clothes taken off for filming, which is clearly not right and as that is the case she will report said person to the police. (do it, tell the police in person at a police station exactly what happened and request they store the information you give them on their systems. (if there have been other incidents this may be the straw on the camels back which now breaks)
nige

Post by HMansfield on 15 September 2011 00:16

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 00:16:07 GMT

[qt]Doesn't anyone find it strange that all the comments saying how stupid the girl must be, and basically doubting that it could possibly be true are from photographers.[/qt]
Just to clarify, I'm actually doubting that the girl was as naive and stupid as is being implied, and think there may be other elements to this story that have not yet been brought forth.

Post by Tansy_Blue on 15 September 2011 00:11

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 00:11:25 GMT

stolenfaces
Not a single comment from a model on these lines (Tansey makes a specific point)

I'm going to choose to read that as being asked to give my opinion, so here goes. :D

I think:
- He's a manipulative bastard and should know better
- She's naive and silly, but hey, we all are at 18 (obviously I would have no personal experience of this)

Is there a legal case?
Suppose you could try for sexual assault/harassment/discrimination (he wouldn't have done it if I were a bloke!) charges, but if she consented to everything there probably wouldn't be a case unless you have a particularly prudish jury. IANAL so this might be bullshit.

I think she should:
- Run. Run, far far away. Images: forget 'em, loads of photographers who won't make up shoot terms on the spot. Job: not worth it and doesn't look like he's going to give it to her anyway.
- Grow some common sense.

End of. Everyone does stupid things, all she can do now is try and move on. And pray the images don't come out. Possibly practise looking serene and quoting the 18 line above for when they do.

I don't doubt it's true, but I DO think it was stupid.

SerenDigital
erm, model release forms actually protect the photographer, not the model. In this country they are just an optional extra, there is really no reason to use them unless you are shooting porn.

So actually it's sometimes better not to sign a model release form.

[happy6]

Post by HMansfield on 15 September 2011 00:07

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 00:07:00 GMT

Plenty of models have been heavily critical in the past of girls who have given the "he asked me to audition on webcam. I said I didn't want to do nude, but he said he needed to know what kind of clothes would fit my physique best" posts.

Post by stolenfaces on 14 September 2011 23:58

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:58:40 GMT

Doesn't anyone find it strange that all the comments saying how stupid the girl must be, and basically doubting that it could possibly be true are from photographers.

Not a single comment from a model on these lines (Tansey makes a specific point)

Post by HMansfield on 14 September 2011 23:57

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:57:39 GMT

What I find far-fetched is that a media student thought nothing amiss about being asked to pose naked for photo's on the spur of the moment, for shots/video that were just to be used as reference material when planning a future collaborative effort.
Dodgy producers trying it on? Perfectly believable.

I wouldn't be surprised, however, if it turns out the girl in question has a modelling profile on here, and lists nude on her levels.

Post by stolenfaces on 14 September 2011 23:48

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:48:24 GMT

HMansfield

"I'd like your input from the perspective of second producer. Now, take your clothes off and let me film you" "Okay, I see nothing odd about this at all". Either I'm really out of touch with reality, or conversations like this don't happen. I suspect that there may be a few details omitted.

You have of course omitted virtually all the story as we have been told it, but if you think the full story is far-fetched you are indeed out of touch with reality.

Post by jbwalton on 14 September 2011 23:38

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:38:46 GMT

WhatYouMakeIt

Because I would have thought that people who are working in the industry, especially professional models, would have some idea of their legal rights. Going to a solicitor is good advice, but unless they specialise in the media industry their knowledge will likely be less than someone who actually does the job........

yeh right [happy8] [happy8] [happy8]

Post by HMansfield on 14 September 2011 23:27

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 23:27:02 GMT

"I'd like your input from the perspective of second producer. Now, take your clothes off and let me film you"

"Okay, I see nothing odd about this at all".

Either I'm really out of touch with reality, or conversations like this don't happen. I suspect that there may be a few details omitted.

Post by pippins on 14 September 2011 12:37

Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:37:43 GMT

Your friend is going to be awfully silly when she grows up!