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The appeal behind topless modelling?

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Profile Pictures is off-line
28 February 2016 08:52
profilepictures
Photographer
profilepictures
Location
United Kingdom
Suffolk
Bury St Edmunds

So many things in one post.

First, I agree nobody should be pushed to work in a way which makes them uncomfortable. Your levels don't show nude or implied nude. Levels should be clearly stated with no hint of ambiguity in order that folk can understand and respect them.

Leading on from that, you show a nude picture on your portfolio, arguably two, so that might cause a confusion, or understandable misinterpretation. That you say they're is 'context'is no more plausible or workable an explanation than of the photographer shooting a nude stood in a field, with or without sunglasses and hat.

Fashion is fashion, as the model you really don't have to like it, you need to wear it though and make it look as good as you can. Most people think fashion is putting on something from Dotty P that's just been delivered to the shop, that's high street, fashion is often months or years before that happens and sometimes it's dreadful profilepictures is a naughty person . Still a models job to, well, model it!

If you agree a rate for a job, you shouldn't be surprised or annoyed to have agreed a price less than you felt reasonable, that's your fault. You say your rates are standard, I have literally no idea what standard rates are? You mean agency, internet, what?

The 'obvious reasons' thing you mention in starting? One of those obvious reasons is art, and really, it's entirely for the artist to decide what they feel qualifies. Nude bodies really are common as rain in the history of art. If you want to make something you feel is tasteful and artistic, pay someone to shoot it for you or work with someone in collaboration to get the right kind of thing. You really don't have much input when asked to complete a paid job as far as design and styling are concerned, that's not your job. Sometimes you can contribute, which is nice, but it's really not your job.

You'll possibly think this comes over as negative, and it would be really in response to your post, but as someone with maybe 6 or 8 nude women stood about in a field type pictures, I'd be one of the target group you are pointing at perhaps? Me, I like a nude model, in fact I think it's a dozen times easier to work with a nude than to try and create a convincing fashion shot. I like that, and if I'm paying the right person to work with me, what is the problem?



AGS is off-line
28 February 2016 09:46
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

If you watch FTN (The fashion channel) It's full of lasses with nipples showing. And most fashion, is garbage, I did a catwalk show once and a lass came out with a dress made of asda carriers.

So...


- He offered you £50 to model a nondescript piece of clothing.

- You accepted the assignment, one which is within your publicly stated levels.

- You're a model.


Sooo.... ? your problem with him is what ?



If models take the time to ask the right questions, they don't go into a blind job. #Communication
Nobody likes PM-PingPong, but sometimes it's necessary. If you don't have the patience for it, well, that's when these things happen.

If you'd walked off my job, I wouldn't have paid you at all. Had that not been a student, but a work deadline for a company... whoa, you better do some reading. If someone loses a multi-thousand £ job because of your decision to leave, you could well be looking at a large invoice on your doorstep to cover losses and at worst, some kind of legal action. This is why professionals use agencies, not internet modelling sites.

From what you've written, a rethink on port presentation maybe in order.


Frank Sinnott is off-line
28 February 2016 10:01
frankpht
Photographer
frankpht
Location
United Kingdom
London


Well you were absolutely right to feel as you did. A dress is a dress and what you wear underneath it is your business. This guy wanted to shoot you in a dress if he wanted you to be naked underneath it he should have expressed this. It should not be up to you to ascertain this. There are posts on here saying you should have acted like a model and go along with the brief but you were mislead.

You were within your rights to leave the shoot and you should be applauded for it.


Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
28 February 2016 10:05
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


Totally cringing at the hash tag you slipped in there, but did I say I got paid like you're assuming? For you information, I did not care for payment as my main priority was getting of there. Oh, and cheers for the advice captain hindsight, if you even read the multiple replies where I said I've learnt from this bad experience! The kind of work he was asking me to do would have involved breaking into the nude boundary, and that's not a level I work up to, so you're wrong in the sense that I knew what I was letting myself in for - I was misled and I believe it was within deliberation. He wouldn't even let me wear parcel tape ffs, yet he offered to photoshop out my nipples and labia! Does that sound right to you? At all? Because that sure seemed sketchy as hell to me.




Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
28 February 2016 10:07
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


Quote from frankpht
Well you were absolutely right to feel as you did. A dress is a dress and what you wear underneath it is your business. This guy wanted to shoot you in a dress if he wanted you to be naked underneath it he should have expressed this. It should not be up to you to ascertain this. There are posts on here saying you should have acted like a model and go along with the brief but you were mislead.

You were within your rights to leave the shoot and you should be applauded for it.



^^^^^^ Thank you, finally someone talking some sense


AGS is off-line
28 February 2016 10:13
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

Go easy, the kids a fashion student, how many of us knew to state everything when we first bought a camera when beginning to interact with models? Education is key, the kids blind to what we know, and if anything it's up to the paid model to find out what the paying client wants. Unexpected or unforeseen issues on-set you deal with professionally, not walk off in a huff.

Imagine if your plumber ran into a complication, swore at the pipe which is now gushing water, asked for the money anyway then walked off leaving an unfinished job behind him.

It's no different. Even different lighting could have made all the difference. Solutions are the key, not leaving someone hanging after accepting the work. I would never recommend such a person to anyone else.

Flip it round, photographer at a wedding... DOH the Rev suddenly says "you cant use flash" - Oh well, AndyGStudios is a naughty person that then, and walk out LMAO, as if...


Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
28 February 2016 10:21
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


For one, that 'kid' was a late 30 something year old man, and secondly, I did not walk off in a huff, I explained to him calmly that I did not want to wear the material without TINY bits of parcel tape, to which he was having none of then HE tried to turn it around on me and almost blame me for the fact he was in the mess from leaving all his work to the last minute, and it was at that point I decided to apologise that I couldn't be more help to him and made my exit - which you would have known if you'd read the bloody thread properly. Why do you keep doing that, trying to turn bits of the story into things they're not then going off on a whole other tangent?



Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
28 February 2016 10:31
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


Lack of basis in your argument perhaps


AGS is off-line
28 February 2016 11:06
AndyGStudios
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Wakefield

There's a reason for that. You're not providing the whole story, even if it's only one side of it - he's not here to defend himself, so it's acceptable to imho to give a little with the version of events as provided in your favour.

"For you information, I did not care for payment"
- You didn't give us that earlier, and I said "He offered you £50" and "you accepted the assignment."

And, i'm the one who's not reading ?

Lack of argument ? hardly... though you do realize there's an edit button attached to your post, yes ?

If you scrutinize my example, it's giving you a tip on how not to get into hot water - you're welcome.
You didn't give an age, you gave a situation leading people to assume a youthful age.
Wearing parcel tape on a finished work of fashion, yeah look flamin ridiculous - of course he wouldn't give way on it, he didn't want to be laughed at. If that was the point of the shoot however, bang on, if not, the right thing to do is consider half payment, blame him for not describing the job enough - it then becomes his fault, and you may want to suggest an alternative model who can deliver what he needs to achieve.

Yes I get you don't like what I wrote, that's because it's not what you want to hear. And you love people who take your side. I'd sooner see things more pragmatically, and not take sides. You said "£50 for up to 8 hours - so I was actually doing him a favour answering him at such short notice for pretty much F all!."

"F'All", is nothing
"pretty much F'all", is something.

Please be clear in what you write and people won't assume the wrong idea. Nobody here, was there, we only know what you tell us. And you wanted a discussion on it, or you wouldn't have posted it in the first place. Also... the difference between argument, and opinion.


digineil is off-line
28 February 2016 11:23
digineil
Photographer
digineil
Location
United Kingdom
Staffordshire


Kimmi does not have nude or topless listed in her levels so it looks to me like the guy was level pushing. Plenty of models shoot nude so why push the levels ?




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