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The appeal behind topless modelling?

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Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
27 February 2016 22:00
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


Asides from the obvious reason, after my experiences from many photo sessions and looking through other photographers' portfolios that claim to capture these so called 'tasteful' topless and nude shots (although in many cases I fail to see claimed tastefulness), I find myself frequently wondering why photographers are so keen on capturing images like these, as I have a suspicion the intention isn't always pure - perhaps some even use photography as a front solely for seeing an undressed woman? I answered a casting call recently from a photography student requesting a model to wear some dresses for his fashion project, which was actually left to the last minute as he had no pictures and his project needed to be handed in the following week, for which he could only offer £50 for up to 8 hours - so I was actually doing him a favour answering him at such short notice for pretty much F all! What he didn't specify in the description was that the dress was actually a tatty piece of see-through material with a hole in the middle to fit my head in, and I wasn't even allowed to wear underwear, yet he could 'photoshop out anything I wanted' such as nipples and genialia - yet when I tried to compromise with him by offering to cover those bits with parcel tape for my comfort, it was a problem and he remarked with 'well that would just look silly, wouldn't it'- which would make anyone go wtf, how does that make sense?! After telling me that this was for the purpose of fashion and that he couldn't tailor his ideas to suit me, I decided enough was enough and I walked out.
Has this ever happened to anybody before? What is it with some photographers that seem so desperate to get a woman naked, even if she doesn't feel comfortable? I also fail to understand how people like this don't have a single bit of negative feedback on their page too!


ChrisS is off-line
27 February 2016 22:28
TheChrisS
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Cambridgeshire


This seems a bit of a hypocritical post with your Naked Wood Nymph photograph in your portfolio, with a large amount of lingerie shots also populating your profile. Regardless of this, your issue is primarily with the lack of clarification from the photographer you worked with. You were probably right to walk out, so leave him some negative feedback. You also seem to be complaining about his rate, yet you still chose to go along; you have no right to complain about the rate of pay. You knew what to expect financially.

Unfortunately in the world of photography you do get the occasional rogue photographer, just as in the world of modelling you get models who let you down repeatedly. Sadly it happens and you seem to have been caught out. Maybe next time get a photographer to send you an image of the outfit you intend to wear.

Different photographers specialise in different forms of portraiture. It's no different to naturist art classes - photographers in general see the human form as artistic and wish to capture a perfectly lit model. It does not mean that these photographers are just there to get themselves sexual gratification, which is what you seem to be implying. Some photographers specialise in porn - which to me is tacky personally - but it's their choice. And there are a lot of models who want to get into that kind of work too - it's not just photographers forcing them to do this.

Your thread seems to be overtly negative towards photographers who work with nudes, and I suspect you may ruffle a few feathers. Don't let one bad experience tar your views of other photographers with the same brush.


Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
27 February 2016 22:48
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


Well no, hardly hypocritical as my wood nymph shots have obvious context and purpose to them, I addition to that I'm not showing any private area or bare breast, so that's not even on a comparable scale. And of course I have the right to complain if I wasn't expecting a sheet of torn chiffon with holes in it to constitute as a 'dress', anybody in the right mind would. With pornography and adult material, it has a purpose and we all know what it is, and the same can be said with erotica and very high context themes such as images that depict a powerful message - but what I'M referring to are photographs where the purpose is not clear and is rather ambiguous, or doesn't seem to look 'right', if you get what I mean. For example, a random fully naked woman with her genitalia out posing in the middle of a cornfield wearing sunglasses and a hat - if that's not classified as adult but the photographer claims it as art... well, anyone could tell you that art is subjective, but really? Like, seriously, is that what you'd call it, because when I see an image like that I really struggle to link the two together. I am also aware that I have images that show more flesh, but like I said, the context is clear with no ambiguity, I'm not attempting to rose tint or make it out to be something it's not supposed to be.


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
28 February 2016 04:14
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

A lot of men, especially older ones I'd wager, just like to look at tits... it's that simple. Perhaps it reminds them of their youth when that's all you could see with adult material, or perhaps it's an obsession born from their fascination with 'Page 3'.

Glamour in general doesn't really have a purpose, other than to show women off with as much sex-appeal as possible.

But yes, there are photographers whose photographic ideas are somewhat obtuse / disturbing yet in their heads they are producing 'art', it doesn't necessarily mean they're up to no good though. Perhaps they've been warped over the years by nagging wives who don't give them the attention they like, who knows?
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
28 February 2016 07:51
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


That doesn't fill me with much confidence but I must say your explanation does make sense and sounds all too plausible lol


Keith Wells is off-lineSilver Member
28 February 2016 07:55
keithpics
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
East Sussex
Brighton

Reminds me of my youth when I had a Saturday job in a local camera shop. The top floor was fitted with studio lights and a vaguely beach-like backdrop. Two models were 'on duty' dressed in bikinis and guys would come in, hire the studio, models and a camera on an hourly basis. Curiously, they rarely bought any film (pre-digital age).


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
28 February 2016 08:07
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Quote from Kimmikitsch
That doesn't fill me with much confidence but I must say your explanation does make sense and sounds all too plausible lol



Just have the guts to stand your ground and tell them you're not doing anything tacky.

Part of the problem with modelling / photography is people's perceptions of what a particular genre consists of.  For example 'glamour' can be anything ranging from high-quality sensual lingerie shots right down to tacky shots of women squeezing their boobs together while pouting at the camera.  You've just got to be sure you're clear what the photographer intends to shoot and if he's good enough to do it.

I'll confess I shoot what I consider to be glamour (albeit high-end),  though I've had many say it isn't glamour and borders on fashion / commercial lingerie.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
28 February 2016 08:43
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


That is very true, I learnt that the convoluted way when I walked out on my last shoot - tbh I had no suspicions as the guy seemed legit and I certainly wasn't expecting to land myself in the poo poo like that. What I took away from that was to trust less, which is sad as trusting and adaptability was one of my proud positives. But for the sake of safety and saving valuable time, it's definitely better to be cautious than overly open and trusting.


ChrisS is off-line
28 February 2016 09:00
TheChrisS
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Cambridgeshire


I think its just more a case of doing a bit more homework next time. When I work with models I try to be as thorough as I can and cover all angles


Kimmi Kitsch is off-lineGold Member
28 February 2016 09:10
Kimmikitsch
Model
Kimmikitsch
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey


I've definitely learnt that now, next time I'm helping a fashion or art student, I'm gonna ask for pictures of the clothing, as I certainly don't wish to be wearing bits of holey crap as dresses lol. The worst bit was he carried on trying to convince me to wear it even after I made it clear I did not want to do it, then almost hinted that I was to blame for putting him in a difficult position - like it was my bloody fault that he left his dissertation till the last minute and getting stuck in this mess! Never again, never again.



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