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so you want paid do you ! ***controversial***

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Andy is off-line
06 September 2014 16:45
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Location
United Kingdom
Fife
fife based, but Scotland wide

I guess it is the same in any industry, take decorators, you have good painters and photostore is a naughty person painters, then you also have the ripping off merchants who never passed a trade test, but charge ten times more than the qualified tradesman, not sure if they get their shaved badgers out though ? ................brushes, im talking brushes !
lets get shootin


Skymouse is off-lineGold Member
06 September 2014 16:45
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

I can only speak for my own model selection process.

They get hired if they're suitable for the job.

"Being pretty" is a bit meaningless. Being desirable to the audience I'm shooting for" is nearer the mark. But that's not adequate on its own, and there are requirements that are harder than that to fulfil.

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.


Profile Pictures is off-line
06 September 2014 17:26
profilepictures
Photographer
profilepictures
Location
United Kingdom
Suffolk
Bury St Edmunds

What's with the thinly veiled negative comments about nudity though? I understand its fine to have a moan that everyone else is at fault for your state of mind relative to your photography experience, but you want to edge in the nudity comments too? Why is that do you think? Is a model more substandard if they wear fewer clothes then? Surely you aren't alarmed or surprised that some of the range of models shoot to topless or nude? As an alternative view, there's some fairly dismal photography about, but not only does it provide work for people, it's also just part of a spectrum for any of the participants from the site surely? Might be I misread you, but you baited the title with 'controversial' and all I saw was bleating and some disdain for nudity; perhaps there was more to the point.


Andy is off-line
06 September 2014 18:10
photostore
Photographer
photostore
Location
United Kingdom
Fife
fife based, but Scotland wide

Quote from profilepictures
What's with the thinly veiled negative comments about nudity though? I understand its fine to have a moan that everyone else is at fault for your state of mind relative to your photography experience, but you want to edge in the nudity comments too? Why is that do you think? Is a model more substandard if they wear fewer clothes then? Surely you aren't alarmed or surprised that some of the range of models shoot to topless or nude? As an alternative view, there's some fairly dismal photography about, but not only does it provide work for people, it's also just part of a spectrum for any of the participants from the site surely? Might be I misread you, but you baited the title with 'controversial' and all I saw was bleating and some disdain for nudity; perhaps there was more to the point.



ok here goes, "veiled negative comments about nudity " Where did you get that, firstly i dont think any of my comments were "veiled"  for anyone who missed i do not think getting your tits out qualifies anyone as a model and i thought i made that clear, i have no issue with nudity, seriously, have you even looked at my port ? probably more with nudity than not !

Is it too much to expect a "model" to be able to do just that ? 
how many models on here or other forums are really doing it for the love of it ? even if accepting payment.

most likely the reasons  for a lot modelling on these forums are:

 I'm genuinly interested and want to try this, usually scared away within a fortnight once their mailbox fills up with dodgy requests
I hate doing this but  it's a quick way to pay off my debts
im between jobs/college
it's just an addition to my sex worker income (or another avenue to paid sex work punters ) oh no he did'nt really say that did he ? yep i sure did !
im going to be the next big thing (delusional)
the list is long and varied

modelling as a job is no differrent to any other, you have to work at it, devote time to it and to excell at it you most likely have to love it . if you cant do that then it shows in the results and i for one will now ask, "so you want paid do you ?

lets get shootin


Neil Anderson is off-line
06 September 2014 19:34
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from photostore
ok here goes, "veiled negative comments about nudity " Where did you get that, firstly i dont think any of my comments were "veiled"  for anyone who missed i do not think getting your tits out qualifies anyone as a model and i thought i made that clear, i have no issue with nudity, seriously, have you even looked at my port ? probably more with nudity than not !



Is it too much to expect a "model" to be able to do just that ? 

how many models on here or other forums are really doing it for the love of it ? even if accepting payment.



most likely the reasons  for a lot modelling on these forums are:



 I'm genuinly interested and want to try this, usually scared away within a fortnight once their mailbox fills up with dodgy requests

I hate doing this but  it's a quick way to pay off my debts

im between jobs/college

it's just an addition to my sex worker income (or another avenue to paid sex work punters ) oh no he did'nt really say that did he ? yep i sure did !

im going to be the next big thing (delusional)

the list is long and varied



modelling as a job is no differrent to any other, you have to work at it, devote time to it and to excell at it you most likely have to love it . if you cant do that then it shows in the results and i for one will now ask, "so you want paid do you ?






Your view of a competent model is just your view.

The elephant in the room here is that you think it's perfectly ok for a model to be delusional as long as she doesn't ask to be paid.
My opinion is that I won't work with a model that isn't worth paying. If I'm not interested in working with a model I just don't care what they do.

Just because you think these girls that you think can't model (presumably because you can't judge a model by anything other than a top photographer's photos in her portfolio) you think they should work for free. If you don't think a model is any good why would you care whether she is asking for paid work, surely you wouldn't work with someone you thought incompetent just because they'd shoot with you for free, would you ? To spend your time moaning about people you don't want to shoot seems rather sad.

This is a market, if the model won't work for you at a rate you think she's worth, then don't shoot her.
It's glaringly simple.
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Profile Pictures is off-line
07 September 2014 01:51
profilepictures
Photographer
profilepictures
Location
United Kingdom
Suffolk
Bury St Edmunds

Hmm. I'd best butt out of this one before I add to the controversial element further. Not, for clarifies sake, in favour of the bleating exasperation line which suggests Ill equipped models are either commonplace or even an issue - a previous respondent sensibly points out its a matter of choice who you choose to shoot anyway; but because I'd be more inclined to suggest again that all sorts of both model and photographer are here and that leads to a billion permutations based on geography, timing, preference and funding. Any of those factors can produce beautiful pictures, naturally though the majority are pretty hum-drum and many are just profilepictures is a naughty person .

Bottom line is, if the picture turns out crap, it's the photographers fault. Therefore, it's your problem here, not the models problem.




marlham is off-line
07 September 2014 03:50
marlhamphoto
Photographer
This member has been reset to pending
marlhamphoto
Location
United Kingdom
Kent
Canterbury

Quote from profilepictures
Not, for clarifies sake, in favour of the bleating exasperation line which suggests Ill equipped models are either commonplace or even an issue


It's not a scenario I recognise either. Perhaps because I don't trawl new model profiles or castings generally so I miss the opportunity to be offended by errant models!

But I do work with plenty of new models. They approach me and if they're local I'm generally happy to sort something out. Although the enquiry generally starts with a question about MY rates or whether I'm open to TF - go figure!

And here's a controversial bit for you. Brand new models are attentive, open-minded and dreadfully keen to implement the photographer's direction - after all they have nothing else to draw on. I've had some amazing shoots with new models - and in terms of output achieved I'd say those particular models are more deserving of pay than many models who've been around for a bit. Why? Because it takes only a few shoots with the abundance of godawful photographers here for their modelling abilities to become constrained, lacklustre and repetitive. With their confidence falsely bolstered by the effusive nonsense those photographers tell them and write in the references they leave them. Consequently models think they're doing well when they're not. But the bigger problem is that they don't recognise that they need to improve.

Bottom line is it's easier for a photographer to get something from a brand new model than it is from one who's been around for a bit. But blame the godawful photographers if you're going to blame anybody!


marlham is off-line
07 September 2014 03:55
marlhamphoto
Photographer
This member has been reset to pending
marlhamphoto
Location
United Kingdom
Kent
Canterbury

Quote from photostore
well it seems from my pm's today, that more think like me, but don't want the hassle of saying so on forum...


Ahh the mythical guys (and girls?) with with no marlhamphoto is a naughty person . What's the chances their photography is godawful too?


Iain Thomson is off-linePlatinum Member
07 September 2014 05:41
IainT
Photographer
IainT
Location
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire


Well, market forces are what dictates who gets paid and who doesn't.

Its the job of a Professional photographer to make a girl a model. Give me the raw material and I'll produce the goods. If I can't, then the girl really is a no hoper or I'm in the wrong job.

Sure its easier if the girl is actually a model, but "real" models on portfolio hosting sites are a rare breed. A shoot with a "real" model is a bonus and an easy day for me or any good photographer, but I earn my money by making girls look like models, most of the time I shoot who I'm told to shoot. Thats what a Pro photographer does.

As an amateur, you do your research, you pay your money, you take your choice, if you make a bad choice, you have to take responsibility for it

As for "Professional" in relation to modelling, its a rare thing and is nothing to do with income. A handfull of models take their career seriously and can be classed as Professional, the majority are simply playing at being a model and if blokes who want to see them naked are willing to pay for the privilige, why should they turn the money down?
I tend to be a modest man, but then I do have a lot to be modest about.


07 September 2014 06:22
jessicard
Model


Why does it matter? They are clearly still getting shoots - so what if they are in a "debt period" in their lives and use modelling as a way of clearing debt or making money? I'd say that's pretty pro active to me! Don't shoot them if you don't want to work with them - you love a good moan on these forums. Move on! Shoot good models and ones your budget afford. These sites have always had girls that aren't serious about "real" modelling on them - they aren't taking work from "real" models who don't want to do as high levels or work with GWCs so where is the harm?

So bored of photographers whining about models and their rates. Don't book them then! Who are you to claim a model isn't worthy of her rate? If people pay it then what business is it of yours? They aren't claiming to be the next Kate Moss but as I said if there are enough "GWCs" willing to pay then let them take the money while its there. Not gonna turn down £200 for a days work because "oh I'm not sure if its arty". The pictures stay on the photographers computer and the model gets paid - win/win. Not everyone is here for the "art" - some of us like cold hard cash.
http://jayerose.tumblr.com/



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