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Women Bishops

Salacious Art is off-line
14 July 2014 15:33
pentax5AC
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Bridlington

Let's play devil's advocate... Is the Synod go ahead for women bishops just a realistic recognition of the liberal values now dictated by a secular society? And if so...isn't this a betrayal of early scriptural doctrine?


OldMaster is off-line
14 July 2014 16:40
OldMaster
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OldMaster
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Hertfordshire
Harpenden

..."And if so...isn't this a betrayal of early scriptural doctrine?"

Depends as any such "doctrine" was written some 4+ centuries after the "death of Christ" and heavily edited by those it was intended to benefit.

Bit like a "dodgy dossier" if you like!!

Frankly as an agnostic and in what in truth is a secular society I can only be interested at all because I think women should have equality in the "work place"?


Paul Hodson is off-line
14 July 2014 17:28
mph
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mph
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United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from pentax5AC
Let's play devil's advocate... Is the Synod go ahead for women bishops just a realistic recognition of the liberal values now dictated by a secular society? And if so...isn't this a betrayal of early scriptural doctrine?



Devil's advocate? Very apposite!
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Salacious Art is off-line
15 July 2014 14:36
pentax5AC
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Bridlington

Yes, I thought so too!

But, back to the chase...
I think the real dilemma for Christians might be that the Agnostic view mentioned above; however valid, seems remarkably similar to the school of thought used to endorse the decision.
Have we reached a stage where the Church is more concerned about being seen to reflect secular views than it is about adhering to spiritual ones?
However difficult that might be!


Hugh is off-lineGold Member
15 July 2014 18:41
Hugh
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Hugh
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Dyfed
Aberystwyth

Which Church?

I assume you are talking about the heretic, Protestant bunch started by Henry VIII when he wanted a divorce?
Surely that is "a Church", not "the Church".

That's a bit like mixing up Coke and Pepsi
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redbaron is off-lineSilver Member
16 July 2014 03:27
redbaron
Photographer
redbaron
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

I'm not religious so from a personal perspective it matters not a jot. Nor am I concerned about the other hot issues like gay marriage. If a couple are blissfully in love with each other from my personal perspective I see no reason why they should not be allowed to express that love the same way millions of other do regardless of their sex.

Looking in to the church from the outside as it were though I find the views of the traditionalists far more logical and coherent than those pushing this modern agenda. Surely the point of a religion is to provide a set of fixed immutable core values around which to base your life. Both in terms of how you live yours personally and how you interact with others. I fail to see how you can simply ignore, rewrite and on occasion completely brush aside the teachings in the bible or indeed Quran just because they do not fit in with how you happen to prefer living your life.

If you consider yourself a Christian and the bible makes clear a certain aspect of your life is not acceptable then, however painful, however much you enjoy that part of your life, surely you should be accepting without question it wrong and seeking to at least abstain.

As an atheist I am quite at liberty to define my own moral compass, even if it does not adhere to that of society. A Christian however has this dictated by the religion the have chosen to practice. Surely those laws are fixed and immutable. They are, quite literally written in stone and confirmed within the bible. Complain to twitter about them uploading all your contacts from your iPhone so they can make use of them they simply point you to the small print of the contract your accepted. If it is in the bible they surely this 'God' is entitled to expect you to follow the contract you have with him/her/it.

Mind you I'm not aware of anything along the lines of thou shalt not have women bishops.
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RGBphoto is off-lineSilver Member
16 July 2014 04:18
magpie1
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Tyne and Wear
Newcastle

Strict 'scriptural doctrine' itself is not really that strict. The original scriptural languages , especially ancient Hebrew and Aramaic, are not literal and definitive as, say, English. The original languages are much more poetic, metaphorical and interpretive so the westernised texts of today, which themselves have transitioned through Greek and Latin are, in actuality very much more hermeneutic and adaptive than direct 'word'.

The original scriptures were also written, most evidence suggests, by men, in a patriarchal society , so even without design the emphasis would simply be assumptive of a male primary role.


Chris is off-line
16 July 2014 08:47
CCP
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CCP
Location
United Kingdom
Essex
Near East London

Ah religion, everyone who knows me, will know how much I love this subject. The Holy Bible as it stands today, should actually been looked into in legal terms. Apart from the sexism towards women, the "good" book, says that gay men are an abomination and should be put to death, and a naughty child should be beaten with a rod. If I were to write anything of a similar nature somewhere, I could get into deep trouble. But if this kind of hate mongering is written in a holy book, it is excused.

I was brought up in a Christian household so I know from first hand experience how ridiculous it all is. Why women would want to join any church which degrades them puzzles me.




Simon Chan is off-line
16 July 2014 12:57
Chandos
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Location
United Kingdom
Merseyside
Liverpool

Not a Christian myself but I heard that 20yrs ago when the CofE began ordaining women priests many traditionalist left and joined the Catholic church so it is not surprising the few remaining traditionalist now find themselves in the minority and could no longer resist against women bishops. One of the argument is by making women more representative the assumption is it help boost the number of church goers but that is not entirely true. Women priests did not help and numbers continue to fall. On the contrary the Catholics in the UK is on the increase and now outnumbers protestants (might be partly due to immigration). Rather like politics it is not the number of women serving in the cabinet but the policies that is important to voters.


Salacious Art is off-line
16 July 2014 14:05
pentax5AC
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Bridlington

The comments made by “redbaron” hit the crux of the argument.
It is one thing for atheists, agnostics and non believers to dismiss religion and scoff at the notion of inspired holy scripture; but for the clergy to ignore or reject parts of a book they hold up as sacred and infallible, in bid to woo the politically correct, is hypocritical and a betrayal of THEIR faith.

It is also quite interesting to note how this rejection of traditional and conservative values in an attempt to modernise the Church through the adoption of more liberal ones has coincided with the biggest drop in attendance and membership. Picking which bits they want to believe in as they go along seems to have spectacularly backfired!



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