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why i tend to post to the other place and what can i do to change that?

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Dominic Thurmer is off-linePlatinum Member
11 July 2014 03:55
dominicdgt
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Gillingham

Quote from jivago
Goof for you! - But some of us are ambivalent about on-line networking.






The skill really is to use it not to social network but to connect with like minded people and let them see an aspect they can't here, I don't spend any time posting irrelevant updates that don't have a photography context, people see activity and it generates interest, here you post a picture and it has a very limited exposure, facebook and a picture with a tag opens exposure to people I'd never expect to meet, ambivalence is fine but its a opportunity I'd recommend looking at if you get the chance to open up a massive option if you can.


Neil Anderson is off-line
11 July 2014 04:09
stolenfaces
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Quote from dominicdgt


The skill really is to use it not to social network but to connect with like minded people and let them see an aspect they can't here, I don't spend any time posting irrelevant updates that don't have a photography context, people see activity and it generates interest, here you post a picture and it has a very limited exposure, facebook and a picture with a tag opens exposure to people I'd never expect to meet, ambivalence is fine but its a opportunity I'd recommend looking at if you get the chance to open up a massive option if you can.



Surely the point of social networking is to connect with like-minded people.
Anything else is just advertising/spamming - not networking at all.
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
11 July 2014 05:11
RedChecker
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Buckinghamshire
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Quote from stolenfaces
Surely the point of social networking is to connect with like-minded people. Anything else is just advertising/spamming - not networking at all.



But therein lies the rub with social networking.  Unless you know how to market yourself on there, simply making a straightforward connection may be seen with suspicion or they simply won't be interested in you.  It also takes time and effort so unless you can throw yourself into it regularly you're unlikely to get anywhere.

It's certainly not as easy/straightforward as simply having a 'shop window' of images and references (alongside everyone else on a level playing field) as this site does.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Skymouse is off-lineGold Member
11 July 2014 08:47
skymouse
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skymouse
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Quote from marlhamphoto
Personally I struggle to understand why some people support that site, through their continued membership, despite being aware of this.



I use whichever resources I think will give me a businses benefit.

This isn't going to be affected by reading a rumour on one site claiming that the owner of another site isn't nice.

Regarding ways forward, I think whichever site addresses the following key issue, that is the site which will flourish. The issue, as I see it, is how to encourage and welcome photographers and organisations who hire models for commercial purposes. These sources of modelling work bring in money from bona fide external sources, ultimately generated from the sale of real products to real consumers. In this day and age,  this source of wealth is ignored at one's peril.

Purestorm is not uniquely poor in this regard, and certainly doesn't start from a position of weakness compared with the other sites. But the longer all of the popular sites delay in extending their hand towards photographers working in a comemrcial or corporate context, the more likelihood that someone with entrepeneurial insight will do so instead. The remaining sites will still be able to continue with their basic premise of its memebrs all opening each other's doors for eachother, while the site that moves forward will attract models who are good enough to command decent regular pay and will attract those whose job it is to select and hire such models.

Such a site would still benefit from the presence of hobbyists. Inclusivity is a strength of sites like Purestorm, and when hobbyists and non-hobbysists share a space, working relationships bteween them will continue to form, as they do now, and that is good for everyone.

I predict that the first site to offer an account type for production companies (including ones in the Adult web site industry) will be the top site within six months.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.


marlham is off-line
11 July 2014 12:05
marlhamphoto
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Canterbury

Quote from skymouse
Regarding ways forward, I think whichever site addresses the following key issue, that is the site which will flourish. The issue, as I see it, is how to encourage and welcome photographers and organisations who hire models for commercial purposes. These sources of modelling work bring in money from bona fide external sources, ultimately generated from the sale of real products to real consumers. In this day and age,  this source of wealth is ignored at one's peril.

Purestorm is not uniquely poor in this regard, and certainly doesn't start from a position of weakness compared with the other sites. But the longer all of the popular sites delay in extending their hand towards photographers working in a comemrcial or corporate context, the more likelihood that someone with entrepeneurial insight will do so instead. The remaining sites will still be able to continue with their basic premise of its memebrs all opening each other's doors for eachother, while the site that moves forward will attract models who are good enough to command decent regular pay and will attract those whose job it is to select and hire such models.

Such a site would still benefit from the presence of hobbyists. Inclusivity is a strength of sites like Purestorm, and when hobbyists and non-hobbysists share a space, working relationships bteween them will continue to form, as they do now, and that is good for everyone.

I predict that the first site to offer an account type for production companies (including ones in the Adult web site industry) will be the top site within six months.


I kinda want to agree with this, albeit based on instinct rather than any stats/facts.

My instinct is that the bulk of paying amateurs have dramatically reduced their economic contribution since 2009 and that for a variety of reasons their contribution is unlikely to be restored to previous levels any time soon. Those reasons are partly economic and partly due to an upsurge in expectations of TF.

Consequently full time models who have managed to continue to sustain their careers are probably heavily reliant upon professional producers for a significant part of their income. The majority of those models who are not suitable for such work have either disappeared completely or have resorted to modelling essentially as a hobby. One presumes their living costs are funded completely outwith modelling.

And it makes sense that if professional producers flock to a particular site then full-time models will follow them. And ultimately so too will the amateurs - both photographers and models.

So some immediate questions seem to be:

1. Who are the professional producers - how significant is their collective budget?
2. What is it that sites aren't currently providing which is key to their needs?
3. Is the short and long term financial upside worth the site's investment?
4. Will the type of work/levels be acceptable to the site's owners/management?

My suspicion is that to attract a worthwhile number of professional producers the site's tolerance of certain adult levels will have to be relaxed significantly. I suspect that's going to be a tricky one for Purestorm.

On balance I'm not sure there'll be much enthusiasm for a site to take this on, especially because of the levels issue. I know the particular work you do is likely to be tolerated but I'm not sure there are many other professional producers whose work either falls entirely within the bounds of what would be acceptable or who would be trusted not to overstep the mark if it does not.

But as I say it's just instinct on my part, nothing more.

In any case it's presumptious for any of us to assume that the site has an appetite for doing anything anyway. My surprise is that the servers haven't been switched off permanently already - probably the only reason is that there are still a few who value and appreciate the site. On the flip side it's encouraging (if slightly mystifying) that people who obviously think the grass is so much greener on the other site seem passionate about what this site should do (or at least that it should do something even if they have no realistic idea what it should be). There must be a reason for that and I do wonder what it is.


marlham is off-line
11 July 2014 12:48
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Canterbury

Quote from Hugh
I would like to see the site revived. Facebook is the preferred way to interact for most models and photographers. Ignoring that is futile It has two weaknesses: - lack of a reference system - the inability to post nudes. Purestorm has a good, well run reference system. It needs a good, easy way to link from Facebook to portfolios and individual portfolio fotos here (without thumbnails showing for NSFW fotos). It also badly needs a better way of sorting model searches on a distance or postcode basis. If that was sorted, it might take off again. Frankly, close integration with Facebook is the only thing which will help.


This mirrors my experience with FB too. It's the way things are heading - inexorably I shouldn't wonder.


Dominic Thurmer is off-linePlatinum Member
11 July 2014 13:14
dominicdgt
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dominicdgt
Location
United Kingdom
Kent
Gillingham

Quote from marlhamphoto
This mirrors my experience with FB too. It's the way things are heading - inexorably I shouldn't wonder.



Don't let this status quo comment from the moderators go unnoticed though this tells us where we stand, I don't know what the issues were but kinda don't care regards where we are now, light years away from where we were in 2008/9 being bitten then isn't the same as now and it feels people voted on an easy option rather than a progressive forward thinking option,

Moderator Comment
Management have given consideration to dropping Clause 6.1.4 (as in some ways it might make life easier)
but majority Moderator opinion was that they were uneasy about 'turning a blind eye' to those serious problems which
allowing social networking site linking previously generated and which now seem to have mostly migrated elsewhere.


Rob Keynsham is off-line
11 July 2014 13:56
basil
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basil
Location
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Avon
Bristol

Quote from jivago
Goof for you! - But some of us are ambivalent about on-line networking.




There is a big difference between not using facebook because you don't want to and not using facebook because you're not allowed to.
I use the other place because I live in Bristol and a 50 mile postcode search is a lot less hassle than a search on Bristol; another on Avon; another on Somerset; another on Gloucestershire, another on Wiltshire, another on West Glamorgan and a search on Newport just to round things off.
I'm very slowly upping my facebook presence because that is the way the world is moving. Purestorm can learn to work with facebook (and linkedin for the professionals) or it can wither away. I don't think there's a third way.





marlham is off-line
11 July 2014 14:09
marlhamphoto
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marlhamphoto
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Canterbury

Quote from dominicdgt
Don't let this status quo comment from the moderators go unnoticed though this tells us where we stand, I don't know what the issues were but kinda don't care regards where we are now, light years away from where we were in 2008/9 being bitten then isn't the same as now and it feels people voted on an easy option rather than a progressive forward thinking option, Moderator Comment Management have given consideration to dropping Clause 6.1.4 (as in some ways it might make life easier) but majority Moderator opinion was that they were uneasy about 'turning a blind eye' to those serious problems which allowing social networking site linking previously generated and which now seem to have mostly migrated elsewhere.


Funnily enough I believe their decision was the right one - it's the way I would have voted. And you're going to have to spell out to me why you think they took the easy option. Since to my simple mind the route they took is the difficult one - in more ways than one...


marlham is off-line
11 July 2014 14:20
marlhamphoto
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Canterbury

Quote from basil
There is a big difference between not using facebook because you don't want to and not using facebook because you're not allowed to.
I use the other place because I live in Bristol and a 50 mile postcode search is a lot less hassle than a search on Bristol; another on Avon; another on Somerset; another on Gloucestershire, another on Wiltshire, another on West Glamorgan and a search on Newport just to round things off.
I'm very slowly upping my facebook presence because that is the way the world is moving. Purestorm can learn to work with facebook (and linkedin for the professionals) or it can wither away. I don't think there's a third way.


Unfortunately postcode search based on a radius is far from being an ideal solution. For me it's a pain in the arse - it returns people based in the extreme east of Essex whilst I'm in the extreme east of Kent. It tells me they're only 20 miles away - yeah right.

The relative merits of all the alternatives have been debated to death - there's no point in doing so again. The way it is at the moment means it works for me even if it doesn't for you. Tough. There's no single solution that will be ideal for everybody.



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