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Three ideas I though could make a change

17 April 2014 06:55
paulbatterbury
Photographer


1) Feedback deletion / removable
 
I often hear photographers have the gipe about model not leaving them feedback and sometime you can leave a model feedback too soon after a shoot, and then things go pear shaped.
 
So how about the ability to delete feedback (by the person that has posted it), that way I think photographers can either delete comment if they think at a later date the feedback was not just or are disappointed that feedback has not been return in kind favour.
 
Maybe then, the majority of models will start to leave feedback.  
 
2) Messages (ie casting replies)
 
Can we have a minium limit on the amount of characters on replies, to prevent such things as:
 
“intreasted”
“me”
“want to work”
"love to work with you"

 
it would be nice to have a few lines in a reply, to drive home that people applying for a cashing are actually interested. I think we are all fed up with one lined answers or requests.
 
3) Castings Sample Images
 
Given that very few people read a casting, or a photographers / models profile page would it be possible to be able to link to an images on the profile page (or upload) to give an example to the type / theme/ style of work, because people tend to look at the pictures and not read the text.
Kind Regards Paul http://www.paul-batterbury.com


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
17 April 2014 07:45
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

I can't agree with the first one.

Feedback should be appropriate for the time the shoot was done.  If people fall out with one another at a later date or are so petty as to live by "I'll give you one only if you give me one" (I don't mean that to sound rude) then as far as I'm concerned that's tough luck. 
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


17 April 2014 08:41
paulbatterbury
Photographer


Red,

If you fell out with a model, or a model falls out with a photographer, what else can it be apart from work and their last engagement together on an assignment? Anything else would be inappropriate.

Some people are too quick to leave feedback on what they thought was a good shoot, only to look back when editing after to see that it was not, because they have be distracted be flirtatious behaviour.

General as a rule in the industry, no one is left bad feedback, even if it is deserved, but in some cases there is time when you wish you could remove feedback. For an example:

“I used Agent X a number of times now, they always get back to me and they are very easy to deal with and book a model”

Great… until the day the rip you off, or abuse that trust, then your words server to feed them new victim drawing them into a false sense of security.

So unless you go back on and contradict yourself, and off course bad feedback is frown upon, it would be much easier to just delete the feedback plus you could edit out spelling mistake as I make so many.

Kind Regards Paul http://www.paul-batterbury.com


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
17 April 2014 08:48
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Other than being petty why on Earth would you change your mind at a later date?

Did they turn up? did they work hard? were they presentable? did they behave professionally? If you can answer yes to all of these after the shoot then why would you change your mind afterwards?

All this would do is to allow people to make retaliatory retractions on what were positive experiences at the time. If you were to have the facility to edit feedback I can accept that changes could be made but NOT to allow a positive experience to turn into a negative one (for whatever reason).

As for witholding images etc. (from a model's point of view), they should leave feedback from shoots until they have the images in their hands, simple. Any reasonable photographer shouldn't take umbradge at that.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


17 April 2014 09:40
paulbatterbury
Photographer


Well Red, not everyone in this world has a vindictive streak, so unless you are thinking that way.

In the past I have asked to feedback I left to be removed from a profile, because the feedback I left them was glowing positive and after a few months they failed to produce any professional output… at all, and that was after I also recommend them to someone else. That was true unprofessional and why would I endorse people who will not function in any form of professionalism

So given that I left feedback that would suggest some form of trust and then have that trust abused I have the choice of contradicting myself on line such as:

“They are great work with these people”
“I would work with these people for all the tea in china”

better to just delete it.

What you are saying is at the time of the shoot, leave the feedback that is just “I got on really well with this person, I found them to know what they wanted out of our time together and inspiring” which is fine, but I am sure people said the same about Hitler when they first met him, and in much the same way it not until later down the line you find out… not good at all.

It not about taking umbridge, if someone feels they need to remove and delete feedback there could be a number of reasons, maybe on looking back on their feedback they may feel the language they used to describe the shoot is not suitable.

Much in the same way people update their portfolios, if a photo is removed it is not done out of spit, simply there is a reason for the update, new improved work, or updated, I sure there is no negative feeling towards the model or photographer, despite hearing reports of some photographers contact models and telling them to use their images.

In all honesty adding and or removing feedback sure be viewed in terms or trust, safety and professionalism and not personal at all. And if a model or photographer starts to issues hassle a week or two after a shoot (which can happen) by your guidelines and experience… tuff they left feedback despite the incidence continuing from the shoot.

I think you are looking at what I have proposed with something of a closed attitude. As I know many photographers that have encountered and experience situation where working with a model has been great, and then after the second or third time + it got worst as the model has basically probed the photographer to see what they can get, and again models have also encountered it from Photographers and other models.

I need to get back to work now.
Kind Regards Paul http://www.paul-batterbury.com


Neil Anderson is off-line
17 April 2014 09:44
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

I'm sure we can all think of scenarios which might develop (such as photographer seems lovely and competent then starts texting/phoning repeatedly, post shoot), but cases of real concern should be notified to admin who can still allow/make changes if you make a case.

So I'd have to agree that I don't think any change is necessary.

Some people get really concerned if they don't collect the feedback, but some people just don't bother with leaving feedback and some people deliberately don't leave feedback as they weren't really happy with the shoot but don't think their unease is concrete enough to justify bad feedback.
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
17 April 2014 09:58
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Quote from paulbatterbury
Well Red, not everyone in this world has a vindictive streak, so unless you are thinking that way.



But that's how this will be used and abused if you're not careful, hence my concerns.

It has often been said that there can be a lot of agro with retaliatory feedback, there always has been and always will be.  Add to that the chance for people to turn a positive feedback into a negative and you then have the site put into an awkward legal position which they (Purestorm) can do without.
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.


Tim is a moderatorPlatinum Member
17 April 2014 10:29
Tim
Model
Tim
Location
United Kingdom
East Sussex
Brighton

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the ideas, always great to get some suggestions on future changes we can work towards. Just to touch on them briefly, the first point about being able to delete the feedback as with a few different suggestions we've had in the past relating to changes in the feedback system they would be a handy changes but it's then being able to put safety nets in place so it doesn't get abused / misused. At the moment if feedback needs to be deleted then our dedicated moderator team reviews each case individually.

The other two points are interesting regarding the casting call message reply and sample images so if anyone else has any thoughts on these it would be great to hear them.

Thanks Paul for these and thanks to everyone contributing so far


many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view


HowardJ is off-line
17 April 2014 11:34
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
West Midlands

I agree that no change is needed on the feedback front. Feedback should reflect the perfornance on a particular job and not be some kind of "I'll leave you positive feedback and if you don't send all your mates to model for me then I'll delete it later". If you feel they did a good job then they did.. end of.

If you find something wrong during editing then you should really have found it in your review of the work shortly after the shoot which you'd do before leaving the feedback.

Where does flirtatious behaviour come into it?

I avoid that at all times.


17 April 2014 12:14
paulbatterbury
Photographer


Right Howard and Red, I thinking that your shoots are for a few hours, every now and then and maybe you get the odd model you work with again.

I am talking about shoots that last 4 days long and with a model(s) that you repeatedly shoot. So I am sorry if this sound arrogant, but unless you been in a situation like that you will not understand.

Where are talking about individuals that win your trust over a period of time, and then pull something seriously bad, damaging (normally financially) it could take month or years.

So if is fine to leave no feedback, but when you have positive feedback left in the past, it possible you would want that deleted, unless off course you want to see other make the same mistake as you based on your endorsements.

You guys seem to be referring to one of shot situations.
Kind Regards Paul http://www.paul-batterbury.com



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