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GOODBYE BENN

Salacious Art is off-line
23 March 2014 09:04
pentax5AC
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East Yorkshire
Bridlington

Quote from carshaltonkev


It is because you hold extreme views like this that I put you in the "headbanger" category and make me realise that arguing here is a complete waste of time.



Whose definition of “extreme” would that be then? I don’t recall posting anything that could be considered even remotely so. Perhaps your real frustration is the one shared by all socialists, a reluctance to countenance anyone who doesn’t subscribe to your own political views.
But it underlines my point as to which political group considers itself to be the self appointed guardian of the nation’s morals, the socialist custodians of our ethical values.
As for 70s entertainment, as you rightly said, the politically correct brigade could never reconcile the idea of MILLIONS watching (and worse still enjoying) sexist comedians such as Benny Hill; it offended their “socialist” sensitivities and didn’t sit particularly well with their new multicultural agenda.
Enter instead, Alexei Sayle, the ultimate “headbanger” with his unique, obnoxious brand of communist comedy! The angry ranting of a certifiable lunatic, unleashed on the British public as “alternative” comedy, sanitised by the PC lot as wholesome, watched by about 36, and enjoyed by Ben Elton and three of his mates from the student fringe.


Kevin W is off-lineSilver Member
23 March 2014 10:23
carshaltonkev
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carshaltonkev
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London
Carshalton / Surrey / Greater London

Quote from pentax5AC
Perhaps your real frustration is the one shared by all socialists, a reluctance to countenance anyone who doesn’t subscribe to your own political views..


I am not sure why you are going on about me being a socialist. Just because I listed 42 reasons not to admire Margaret Thatcher, does that automatically make me a socialist? I assume that in your book, anybody who knocks Thatcher must automatically be a socialist?

Talking of jumping to conclusions, your political views sound more right wing American than anything English, as only in America do they talk about "creeping socialism".

Anyway, I think enough is enough on this discussion!    
As in life, so in a game of hazard, skill will make something of the worst of throws.


Tony Stephenson is off-line
23 March 2014 10:55
tonycsm
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tonycsm
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United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Driffield

Quote from Jackass
Socialism doesn't sit comfortably with individual success, therein lies it's weakness. However, uncontrolled Capitalism has always lead to excess profit, therein lies IT'S weakness. There never seems to be a balance between the two. Whatever political party is in power, I believe this country will spiral downwards until it finds it's natural economic level, and I fear it has a way to go yet.



Capitalism is not a weakness, it's the foundation of every successful and financially viable nation which provides for and takes care of the genuinely poorest or vulnerable in it's society whilst at the same time providing both the incentives and infrastructure for the rest of the people to be successful! What it shouldn't reward is laziness, greed or lack of personal responsibility which is what is happening within Britain today due mostly to political party interference!

I'll once again cite Norway as having a very strong capitalist underbelly - it provides well for it's people without being over-generous with it's benefits but the people are expected to pay for their services etc by paying sufficient taxes at all levels in order to fund the government's spending on policies. They are not spending the oil wealth they have accrued which will secure the future of generations to come... compare that with what is happening in Britain. 

Until the people of this country face up to the reality that you can't keep spending money that the country doesn't earn or have at it's disposal which comes from taxes to provide irresponsible and unsustainable social policies, then nothing will change for the next few decades and borrowing will continue to grow which will be our only legacy to future generations.

What socialists also fail to recognise is that if businesses and industry are allowed to flourish & grow, far from exploiting the workforce, eventually the demand for labour to service these businesses will be high and wages will grow far more as a result than if the country and economy lurches from one crisis to another as it is doing at present!

www.le-femme.co.uk


Kevin W is off-lineSilver Member
23 March 2014 11:06
carshaltonkev
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carshaltonkev
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London
Carshalton / Surrey / Greater London

Capitalism is not a weakness, it's the foundation of every successful and financially viable nation which provides for and takes

Hey Jackass did not say Capitalism is a weakness, he says that it has a weakness!

I am not a socialist or a communist; but I do know that millions of people in the former Soviet bloc were much better off under the old Communist regime than in the corrupt free market capitalism that has replaced it. China is a communist regime, but appears to have managed to transform itself into a global economic powerhouse.
As in life, so in a game of hazard, skill will make something of the worst of throws.


Tony Stephenson is off-line
23 March 2014 11:59
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
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United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Driffield

Quote from carshaltonkev
Capitalism is not a weakness, it's the foundation of every successful and financially viable nation which provides for and takes Hey Jackass did not say Capitalism is a weakness, he says that it has a weakness! I am not a socialist or a communist; but I do know that millions of people in the former Soviet bloc were much better off under the old Communist regime than in the corrupt free market capitalism that has replaced it. China is a communist regime, but appears to have managed to transform itself into a global economic powerhouse.



In the past I've spent a lot of time in Russia living as the locals do in the Siberian region so I know at first hand about how their people live - the old people definitely preferred Communism ... they had very little but knew they had a job and basic security but nothing like we in the West take for granted!
The biggest problem for the Soviets was that once communism collapsed, they had to find ways of supporting themselves but many just couldn't cope as they'd become so used to the state providing everything for them. This adversely affected men and many marriages broke down as a result.
 
The other problem with Russia is that it's riddled with corruption even at local level and nothing to do with capitalism...the police themselves were very often little better than gangsters and it was like that all the way to the top!

As for China, it's not quite the powerhouse you might think it is and is teetering on recession as it too overspent trying to counter the effects of the collapse of the western banking markets and any success it's achieved is down to capitalist ideology.

The same goes for Cuba...it too is steadily embracing capitalism so there is a lot to be said for it!

www.le-femme.co.uk


sean is off-line
23 March 2014 12:16
sean1
Photographer

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Glasgow
Glasgow

Tony Benn will be remembered as one who did his best to help the oppressed while thatcher revelled in being the oppressor - If there is indeed an afterlife then Benn will be content while thatcher will be roasting in Hell impaled on the prongs of a very large pitchfork.


Kevin W is off-lineSilver Member
23 March 2014 12:24
carshaltonkev
Photographer
carshaltonkev
Location
United Kingdom
London
Carshalton / Surrey / Greater London

"the old people definitely preferred Communism ... they had very little but knew they had a job and basic security but nothing like we in the West take for granted!"

They also had housing, education, utlities, healthcare, childcare, holidays and retirement homes provided either free or at very low and affordable cost. Staples like bread and vodka were amazingly cheap.

Of course these days in Russia the population can buy whatever they like. The trouble is that not much of it is affordable! The usual story- a few corrupt people have become incredibly rich multi billionaires and millions of people are impoverished. Hardly seems fair, though maybe fans of Chelsea FC are all in favour?!
As in life, so in a game of hazard, skill will make something of the worst of throws.


Tony Stephenson is off-line
23 March 2014 15:31
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
Location
United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Driffield

Quote from carshaltonkev
"the old people definitely preferred Communism ... they had very little but knew they had a job and basic security but nothing like we in the West take for granted!" They also had housing, education, utlities, healthcare, childcare, holidays and retirement homes provided either free or at very low and affordable cost. Staples like bread and vodka were amazingly cheap. Of course these days in Russia the population can buy whatever they like. The trouble is that not much of it is affordable! The usual story- a few corrupt people have become incredibly rich multi billionaires and millions of people are impoverished. Hardly seems fair, though maybe fans of Chelsea FC are all in favour?!



Have you ever actually lived in Russia? I'm not talking about visiting ST P or Moscow but actually lived in heartland Russia and seen the peasant way of life?

One of the cities I used to visit was until glasnost, a closed city where anyone wishing to visit the city had to have a visa and that included other Russian citizens! Even when I visited it, I always had to register with the local Ovir and confirm everywhere I intended to visit so it wasn't the Utopia you imagine. There was very little choice of food and everything was so basic.
There were huge missing manhole covers on every footpath and roads had potholes that would wreck cars...the infrastructure was absolutely terrible!

I knew one college lecturer in English language and their monthly wage was barely $100 per month and not enough to live on... they visited me once and hadn't even seen a microwave and didn't know how to operate it!

Just like any other country, once the shackles of communism had been shed, people began to prosper - just go to any of the popular holiday resorts visited by UK citizens today and you'll now see countless Russian tourists...something you'd not see 20 years ago, so capitalism is certainly working for those willing to go the extra mile and work hard! 

www.le-femme.co.uk


Kevin W is off-lineSilver Member
23 March 2014 15:50
carshaltonkev
Photographer
carshaltonkev
Location
United Kingdom
London
Carshalton / Surrey / Greater London

Quote from tonycsm
Just like any other country, once the shackles of communism had been shed, people began to prosper - just go to any of the popular holiday resorts visited by UK citizens today and you'll now see countless Russian tourists...something you'd not see 20 years ago, so capitalism is certainly working for those willing to go the extra mile and work hard! 




No I have not even been there. I have only read about it. Maybe all that I read is a distortion. Apart from the UK, the only country I have actually lived in is Israel. I visted Romania and Bulgaria in the Communist era. Bulgaria appared prosperous, Romania the opposite. I believe that now Bulgaria is the poorest country in Europe. Again, I have only read this. Russia was quite dreadful under the Tsar, not that I go back that far.

I think people are perfectly entitled to discuss Israel without having actually lived there.

I worked extremely hard for 14 years in my last job, in fact the stress almost killed me, but I have been out of work for a year. So hard work does not always bring prosperity. I would be surprised if it always follows in Russia either.

Still it is good news that we have a bunch of former Eton schoolboys running the country in the UK, looking after the interests of the average man and woman.
 

As in life, so in a game of hazard, skill will make something of the worst of throws.


Andy_B is off-lineSilver Member
23 March 2014 17:37
Andy_B
Photographer
Andy_B
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Quote from carshaltonkev
No I have not even been there. I have only read about it. Maybe all that I read is a distortion. Apart from the UK, the only country I have actually lived in is Israel. I visted Romania and Bulgaria in the Communist era. Bulgaria appared prosperous, Romania the opposite. I believe that now Bulgaria is the poorest country in Europe. Again, I have only read this. Russia was quite dreadful under the Tsar, not that I go back that far.

I think people are perfectly entitled to discuss Israel without having actually lived there.

I worked extremely hard for 14 years in my last job, in fact the stress almost killed me, but I have been out of work for a year. So hard work does not always bring prosperity. I would be surprised if it always follows in Russia either.

Still it is good news that we have a bunch of former Eton schoolboys running the country in the UK, looking after the interests of the average man and woman.



So you're perfectly happy banging on about what it's like to live in Russia and Israel, even though you've never lived there...

And yet someone born and raised in the UK, who happens to have gone to a school you don't like isn't capable of having a valid opinion on life in the UK. 

Makes sense! cheeky



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