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HS2 is it a waste of taxpayers’ money.

John Woolley is off-line
23 February 2014 07:07
Johnmphoto
Photographer
Johnmphoto
Location
United Kingdom
Greater Manchester


This high speed train is supposedly going benefit the Midlands and the   North West.
Are people living in London and the south East going to travel up to Midland and the North West to work?
The train probably won’t be much faster due to the speed restriction in the tunnels and on the curves. 
I think people are going to travel down to the South East to find work and that means the London and the SE will become richer increasing the North South divide. 


RGBphoto is off-lineSilver Member
23 February 2014 07:30
magpie1
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Tyne and Wear
Newcastle

My feelings are that the money would be better spent improving the network overall. Little point getting to Birmingham 20 minutes quicker if you still have a 30 min wait to go anywhere else, assuming the on link has not been cancelled.
We need a properly integrated transport system not a 'headline' token.


Neil Anderson is off-line
23 February 2014 08:15
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

It doesn't take much intelligence to spot that this is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
If it were a serious project it would link to Heathrow (reducing the need for domestic flights and more runways) and to HS1. There is some sort of Heath Robinson link proposed between Euston and St Pancaras, but it is so ludicrous that it is expected to be abandoned and people left to walk (less than 10 minutes). It doesn't even connect with Crossrail.

Presumably the main benefit of the current scheme is that Ryan Air will be able to fly to London-Birmingham Airport.
The offical report on benefits (by some accountants paid an enormous amount of money to produce the answer the government asked for) showed that the biggest beneficiary would be in re-generation to Old Oak Common in West London. Boris reckons that Old Oak Common could become the Canary Wharf of West London (because people can live in 'cheap' accommodation in Birmingham and commute to West London I guess)
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redbaron is off-lineSilver Member
23 February 2014 17:30
redbaron
Photographer
redbaron
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Rubbish. We should have built the thing decades ago. It's utterly absurd not having a proper high speed link to the north of this country. Just a shame we have to waste years and millions of pounds responding to endless pressure groups all using it as an excuse for a bit of self promotion and grandstanding.
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Neil Anderson is off-line
23 February 2014 19:27
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from redbaron
Rubbish. We should have built the thing decades ago. It's utterly absurd not having a proper high speed link to the north of this country. Just a shame we have to waste years and millions of pounds responding to endless pressure groups all using it as an excuse for a bit of self promotion and grandstanding.



Your 'argument" could have come from the DoT it is so full of sentiment and bereft of facts or logic.
Flood defences have to show a payback of £8 for every pound spent. This project is forecast to bring a return of between £1.20 and best case £1.40 for every pound spent.
And that doesn't include any money for improving lines which connect with the very limited number of stations the line would serve.
Due to the economics it will be cheaper to fly from Manchester than catch this train, and unless you are travelling from very near both stations it will probably be quicker.
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Will is off-linePlatinum Member
24 February 2014 04:05
CameraWillD40
Photographer
CameraWillD40
Location
United Kingdom
Northamptonshire


From my experiences of travelling up and down the M1 and M6, I think that the money would be far better spent getting more freight onto the railways. The traffic flows so much easier when there aren't many lorries around.


Anthonygh is off-line
24 February 2014 04:47
anthonyh
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Kent


Not to worry.....some people will get rich from this scheme...very very rich...and that is the main point of the exercise.

If the aim was really to benefit the country the money would be better spent investing in Britain's youth or high tech industries or the creative industries.....there is quite a list of suitable investment alternatives to providing marginally faster train trips to the few who will be able to afford the tickets.


Peter Reime is off-lineSilver Member
24 February 2014 04:50
Preime
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
East Sussex
Brighton

Whilst I think a highspeed link is an excellent idea and to be honest we should have a network of highspeed lines running from portsmouth all the way up to edinburgh, the way this is being costed and implemented is ridiculous and vastly overpriced.


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
24 February 2014 04:50
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

If the £billions for this were spent on decent communications infrastructure for the whole country then we wouldn't need to travel as we'd have the bandwidth for high quality video conference calling and remote access to our computers.
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Neil Anderson is off-line
24 February 2014 06:04
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

It is quite interesting to note that HS1 and HS2 will be the only continental gauge railways, but they won't be able to run through trains from Manchester to Paris etc.
As speed has now been discounted as a reason for building the line, (it is now all about capacity - apparently), so why waste all that money on shaving 20 minutes off the journey from Birmingham when a none HS line on the same route would be hugely cheaper but provide massive new capacity. Better still make it a 'slow' speed continental gauge freight line and spend some of the savings on creating further continental gauge freight lines connecting to it.
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