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Why shouldn,t I pay the model!

diipii is off-line
24 February 2014 17:03
diipii
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Worcestershire


Quote from stolenfaces


How can it be the same as giving away the negative - I can only think you are talking of passing an unprocessed RAW file to a third party - does anyone do that ? Usually the third party would not want a RAW file even if it were offered.
So what was your point ?? The lack of understanding you talk of arises because it isn't actually true (and frankly not even relevant in 95%+ of cases)




In the digital world the camera produces a file which you clone and give away. It doesn't matter which format. From that point on authorship/ownership/control is up for grabs even if you watermark it. Anyone can do that or remove it at any time and use the image in any way.
By all means shoot with the arrangement that the model receives digital images but realise the possible consequences.

It only happens all the time.


Neil Anderson is off-line
24 February 2014 17:26
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from diipii



In the digital world the camera produces a file which you clone and give away. It doesn't matter which format. From that point on authorship/ownership/control is up for grabs even if you watermark it. Anyone can do that or remove it at any time and use the image in any way.
By all means shoot with the arrangement that the model receives digital images but realise the possible consequences.




'Clone and give away' ??? I don't, do you? You don't really seem to have a clue about the real world.
So what's the difference under your theory with giving a 10x8 or enprint. If you are so scared of anyone reproducing your photograph you should probably not bother taking them.
Authorship/Ownership is certainly not up for grabs, control depends whether you can be bothered policing any use.
Mostly people's photos have literally no value to anyone but the photographer and maybe the subject so even if your opinion had any truth in it (which it doesn't), it still would be of very little significance to most people.
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


25 February 2014 22:44
emmwood
Model


The way I see it is simple to me:

Photographer wants photos - The photographer requires the model's service. The photographer pays the model.

Model wants photos - The model requires the photographer's service. The model pays the photographer.

Both the model & photographer are wanting photos - Equal split of ideas so both get what they want out of the shoot, no money transfers hands as they both require the other's service. This is a TF shoot.

I have been modelling since summer 2008, in this time I have used all 3 scenarios. These days, I've ran out of things that I want for myself more or less so don't do a lot of trade shoots (or "TF" shoots), but when I do have an idea I want to try, I trade my time with a photographer who has ideas of their own to shoot so we both achieve what we want. I think this system is a lot better than the standard "Time For" idea where everyone wants something for nothing. Pay for what you want or trade services is what I stand for. I honestly think "trade for" would be far better than "time for"! I trade services in the non-modelling world too. I trade working on horse yards for riding lessons, I trade baby sitting for lifts to places I need to be. Why is the world so money orientated!? Maybe I'm just born in the wrong era, I should be back in the days you traded vegetables for sheep! Seems to make far more sense to me!


Mao Zhu Photography is off-line
26 February 2014 04:20
MaoZhu
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Warminster

Quote from emmwood
The way I see it is simple to me:

Photographer wants photos - The photographer requires the model's service. The photographer pays the model.

Model wants photos - The model requires the photographer's service. The model pays the photographer.

Both the model & photographer are wanting photos - Equal split of ideas so both get what they want out of the shoot, no money transfers hands as they both require the other's service. This is a TF shoot.

I have been modelling since summer 2008, in this time I have used all 3 scenarios. These days, I've ran out of things that I want for myself more or less so don't do a lot of trade shoots (or "TF" shoots), but when I do have an idea I want to try, I trade my time with a photographer who has ideas of their own to shoot so we both achieve what we want. I think this system is a lot better than the standard "Time For" idea where everyone wants something for nothing. Pay for what you want or trade services is what I stand for. I honestly think "trade for" would be far better than "time for"! I trade services in the non-modelling world too. I trade working on horse yards for riding lessons, I trade baby sitting for lifts to places I need to be. Why is the world so money orientated!? Maybe I'm just born in the wrong era, I should be back in the days you traded vegetables for sheep! Seems to make far more sense to me!



No arguments with this at all.


Paul Hodson is off-line
27 February 2014 05:16
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from keithpics
I'm with David Bailey. I've often wondered how many TF shoots actually do benefit the model's portfolio to the point they end up getting paid work. By 'paid' I mean hard cash, not images, biscuits, etc.



Although of course some TF shoots don't benefit the photograper's portfolio either.....
Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk


Steven Jardine is off-linePlatinum Member
27 February 2014 05:17
RedChecker
Photographer
RedChecker
Location
United Kingdom
Buckinghamshire
Stoke Mandeville

Quote from mph
Although of course some TF shoots don't benefit the photograper's portfolio either.....



Ooh, that could be interpreted in so many ways laugh
When you are dead, you do not know that you are dead. All of your pain is felt by others. The same thing happens when you are stupid.



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