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Why shouldn,t I pay the model!

Mao Zhu Photography is off-line
23 February 2014 12:57
MaoZhu
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Warminster

Quote from Jack_Russell
Because the money isn't coming from his pocket..... He doesn't shoot for 'fun'; if he is shooting a model and paying her he will already have a commission lined up to recompense his outgoings.

Not everybody is in his fortunate position to be to do so.



He was talking particularly about a trip he went on for himself, not a work trip.


Mao Zhu Photography is off-line
23 February 2014 12:59
MaoZhu
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Warminster

Quote from OldMaster
Going to see Bailey's exhibition tomorrow!!



Wish i could join you, from what I saw of it in the TV programme it is fabulous.


Neil Anderson is off-line
23 February 2014 17:19
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from OldMaster

But I also object to this..."and not have to worry about another persons needs such as needing pictures"..not a good starting point for a good working relationship I would suggest? I understand of course if you are paying the model there is "no requirement" to provide pictures but look at it other ways...1) If they use your pics with a credit it is better publicity for you. 2) It increases the chance of continuing a working relationship on good terms and probably with more flexibility on rates next time. Unless you believe you are going to get the best pictures of your model on your first shoot then it goes without saying building a longer term relationship is beneficial. 3) There is just something so selfish about the wording in this.."and not have to worry about another person's needs" kind of says it all!

I will continue to supply fully edited images to my models from the whole shoot regardless of whether it is TF or paid. It is a collaboration and it takes two to create pictures. OK, the photographer pays but equally has all the rights to do with the pictures as they please whereas the model at best is limited to using them only for personal promotion.




This seems to be a bizarre rant. He didn't say he wouldn't share photos with model, merely that paying a model cash leaves you with no residual obligations.
I am not interested in shooting stuff that the model needs, nor in being committed to doing anything with the shots in any particular timescale. That does not mean that I would not give the model pics (eventually) nor does it mean that I am not happy to include the models suggestions where they fit within my overall brief.

Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Chris Dee is off-line
23 February 2014 18:52
ChrisD
Photographer
ChrisD
Location
United Kingdom
Hampshire


Quote from MaoZhu
"Why shouldn't I pay the model!" The words of one of the greatest photographers of our age David Bailey, when questioned about people that pose for his photographs, including ordinary people in ordinary places at his latest exhibition. If Bailey feels that it is right to pay anyone that he asks to photograph why is it some models are pushed and pushed by photographers to do so many TF's. In my opinion Bailey has the right attitude, when you ask someone to pose in front your camera you are employing them so payment should be the norm. OK, if you are asked to photograph somebody then you do not pay, or should be paid. Perhaps there would be a lot more willing and happy photographers and models if we all learnt a lesson from Bailey.



From your profile notes " I am interested in TFCD or TFP to improve my portfolio "


23 February 2014 19:50
JadedRed
Model


Quote from ChrisD
From your profile notes " I am interested in TFCD or TFP to improve my portfolio "



They didn't say "models shouldn't do TFP" they said "why is it some models are pushed and pushed by photographers to do so many TF's".

I agree that payment should be the norm, when you hire someone the expectation should be payment in money unless something else is negotiated. Instead it's topsy turvy, photographers (and models too I presume) seem to think that when they try to hire you it should be presumed they aren't offering pay unless they say so. In my mind if you contact someone about hiring them and you don't plan to pay them in money (the thing made exactly for that purpose in our society) that's quite a notable thing that shouldn't be taken for granted. 


diipii is off-line
24 February 2014 07:04
diipii
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Worcestershire


I believe paying the model is the best thing to do. It puts your relationship on a professional level and firmly establishes your copyright of the photographs making it valid to say no to requests for images. Generally, there seems to be a lack of understanding that giving away a digital file is more or less the same as handing over authorship and ownership with the associated implications. Set up the shoot on a professional basis and all will be well from then on...............
It only happens all the time.


Neil Anderson is off-line
24 February 2014 07:06
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from diipii
Generally, there seems to be a lack of understanding that giving away a digital file is more or less the same as handing over authorship and ownership with the associated implications.



Of course it isn't - no more than giving/selling someone a 10x8.
All of my photos which have been published in books/mags without my consent were from physical prints.
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


diipii is off-line
24 February 2014 09:15
diipii
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Worcestershire


Wrong. It is exactly the same as giving away the negative.
It only happens all the time.


Neil Anderson is off-line
24 February 2014 15:57
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from diipii
Wrong. It is exactly the same as giving away the negative.



How can it be the same as giving away the negative - I can only think you are talking of passing an unprocessed RAW file to a third party - does anyone do that ? Usually the third party would not want a RAW file even if it were offered.
So what was your point ?? The lack of understanding you talk of arises because it isn't actually true (and frankly not even relevant in 95%+ of cases)
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Mao Zhu Photography is off-line
24 February 2014 16:52
MaoZhu
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Warminster

Quote from ChrisD
From your profile notes " I am interested in TFCD or TFP to improve my portfolio "



If Asked by model, I don't ask the model to do.



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