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Why shouldn,t I pay the model!

Mao Zhu Photography is off-line
23 February 2014 04:58
MaoZhu
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Wiltshire
Warminster

"Why shouldn't I pay the model!"

The words of one of the greatest photographers of our age David Bailey, when questioned about people that pose for his photographs, including ordinary people in ordinary places at his latest exhibition.

If Bailey feels that it is right to pay anyone that he asks to photograph why is it some models are pushed and pushed by photographers to do so many TF's.

In my opinion Bailey has the right attitude, when you ask someone to pose in front your camera you are employing them so payment should be the norm. OK, if you are asked to photograph somebody then you do not pay, or should be paid.
Perhaps there would be a lot more willing and happy photographers and models if we all learnt a lesson from Bailey.


MissKatieKiss is off-line
23 February 2014 05:01
IvyLaBomba
Model
IvyLaBomba
Location
United Kingdom
Gloucestershire
Cirencester

How can I argue with this one!? Agreed, if the model asks, you dont pay her, and if your fab, you can get paid too!


Chrissie Red is off-line
23 February 2014 06:55
Chrissie_Red
Model
Chrissie_Red
Location
United Kingdom
Tayside
Perthshire

Quote from MaoZhu
"Why shouldn't I pay the model!" The words of one of the greatest photographers of our age David Bailey, when questioned about people that pose for his photographs, including ordinary people in ordinary places at his latest exhibition. If Bailey feels that it is right to pay anyone that he asks to photograph why is it some models are pushed and pushed by photographers to do so many TF's. In my opinion Bailey has the right attitude, when you ask someone to pose in front your camera you are employing them so payment should be the norm. OK, if you are asked to photograph somebody then you do not pay, or should be paid. Perhaps there would be a lot more willing and happy photographers and models if we all learnt a lesson from Bailey.



What if he is only testing out his lights, or if he doesn't want to profit off the images.... or..... if he genuinely believes he can benefit the models portfolio... or if he doesn't have any money left over from buying his kit.. Or.. if he can get a not so good version of the model/subject for free? ;-)

I guess though when people genuinely respect and value one another then parting with some money isn't a "big deal" - especially if it helps them/their passion.



Gerry is off-line
23 February 2014 07:38
Gerry99111
Photographer
Gerry99111
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Guildford

Quote from MaoZhu
"Why shouldn't I pay the model!" .



If I was rich enough I would book models and shoot want I want and never collaborate. If I was rich enough, I wouldn't need to be paid, so models would never get the opportunity to collaborate with me.

Maybe Bailey is not interested in collaborating?

People collaborate if they have something of worth to trade so its not quite the same thing - you are trading or swapping the opportunity to have input into the shoot for the models time. People collaborate because they are not rich enough to hire, enjoy the process of collaboration and make up for their lack of cash by having a skill that others are willing to trade.
If you have to ask why I do it, you will never understand the reason why


Tempus Fugit is off-lineSilver Member
23 February 2014 09:14
pinkbuildingphotography
Photographer
pinkbuildingphotography
Location
United Kingdom
Tayside


Payment can be made in several ways. Time for pints, exchange of goods, or money.

Personally, I prefer paying money, as it allows me freedom to do what I want, when I want with pictures.

I can edit them when I want etc and not have to worry about another persons needs such as needing pictures for their port etc.
Riding on the Gotterdammerung. Down and down she goes. Where she stops no one knows.


Keith Wells is off-lineSilver Member
23 February 2014 09:48
keithpics
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
East Sussex
Brighton

I'm with David Bailey. I've often wondered how many TF shoots actually do benefit the model's portfolio to the point they end up getting paid work. By 'paid' I mean hard cash, not images, biscuits, etc.


Jaw Imaging is off-lineSilver Member
23 February 2014 10:30
Two_stops
Photographer
Two_stops
Location
United Kingdom
Nottinghamshire
Nottingham

I wish he'd said why shouldn't the photographer get paid.

John
Before digital, photography consisted of only negative comments.


JackR is off-line
23 February 2014 10:43
Jack_Russell
Photographer
Jack_Russell
Location
United Kingdom
West Midlands
Burntwood

Because the money isn't coming from his pocket..... He doesn't shoot for 'fun'; if he is shooting a model and paying her he will already have a commission lined up to recompense his outgoings.

Not everybody is in his fortunate position to be to do so.


OldMaster is off-line
23 February 2014 10:57
OldMaster
Photographer
OldMaster
Location
United Kingdom
Hertfordshire
Harpenden

..."I wish he'd said why shouldn't the photographer get paid"..been there too often now! Doesn't happen unless they are "fab" which is generally taken to mean that the model will get more paid work from it. No good doing arty-farty shoots because they are generally worthless to the model?


But I also object to this..."and not have to worry about another persons needs such as needing pictures"..not a good starting point for a good working relationship I would suggest? I understand of course if you are paying the model there is "no requirement" to provide pictures but look at it other ways...1) If they use your pics with a credit it is better publicity for you. 2) It increases the chance of continuing a working relationship on good terms and probably with more flexibility on rates next time. Unless you believe you are going to get the best pictures of your model on your first shoot then it goes without saying building a longer term relationship is beneficial. 3) There is just something so selfish about the wording in this.."and not have to worry about another person's needs" kind of says it all!

I will continue to supply fully edited images to my models from the whole shoot regardless of whether it is TF or paid. It is a collaboration and it takes two to create pictures. OK, the photographer pays but equally has all the rights to do with the pictures as they please whereas the model at best is limited to using them only for personal promotion.

Frankly as virtually all the work on here is of little or no commercial value I see all shoots as a mutual arrangement and see no harm in both parties benefitting? If you were shooting for commercial clients of course the whole set up is different, even the tog gets paid..but images for Purestorm, don't think so?


OldMaster is off-line
23 February 2014 10:59
OldMaster
Photographer
OldMaster
Location
United Kingdom
Hertfordshire
Harpenden

Going to see Bailey's exhibition tomorrow!!



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