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Scottish referendum.

click_gotcha is off-line
20 February 2014 07:19
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Quote from para
Who's rubbing who's hands I wonder.What have the Tories got to lose,1 seat!! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10424621/Tory-MPs-secretly-want-Scotland-independence-for-Westminster-majority-claims-Lord-Forsyth.html



It's a myth that Scotland gave Labour the majorities they enoyed in Westminster, the fact is that Scotland very rarely influences the outcome of Westminster elections.



Tony Stephenson is off-line
20 February 2014 09:00
tonycsm
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Quote from click_gotcha
It's a myth that Scotland gave Labour the majorities they enoyed in Westminster, the fact is that Scotland very rarely influences the outcome of Westminster elections.




If Scotland chooses to vote YES, then the Labour Party in the rUK will be decimated as it currently depends upon many Scottish seats..

Let's hope that if the vote is YES, then for Scotland's sake, the Scottish MPs running the independent country are better at it than those Scottish origin MPs who ran Westminster during the Nu Labour administration, because if that is a sample of leadership, then Scotland is doomed!

Give it 12 years down the line and I'll wager you'll see a rapid rise in a Scottish equivalent of the Tory party after a decade of the free spending left getting their hands upon the credit cards and brought the country to it's knees.

Anyway, enough of that.... have Salmond and the SNP decided upon which currency they will use if the vote is YES?

It's no good blaming Osborne and the Tories for dismissing the use of the Pound as a shared currency as it just wouldn't be in rUK's interests to go down that route if Scotland chooses independence - we need to protect our own interests and underwriting Scotland's currency borrowings would not be in our interests. Simple..... so slippery Alex and his mates will have to come up with something better than Tory bashing as a deflection from the real issues very soon.
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click_gotcha is off-line
20 February 2014 09:08
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Quote from tonycsm
If Scotland chooses to vote YES, then the Labour Party in the rUK will be decimated as it currently depends upon many Scottish seats..

Let's hope that if the vote is YES, then for Scotland's sake, the Scottish MPs running the independent country are better at it than those Scottish origin MPs who ran Westminster during the Nu Labour administration, because if that is a sample of leadership, then Scotland is doomed!

Give it 12 years down the line and I'll wager you'll see a rapid rise in a Scottish equivalent of the Tory party after a decade of the free spending left getting their hands upon the credit cards and brought the country to it's knees.

Anyway, enough of that.... have Salmond and the SNP decided upon which currency they will use if the vote is YES?

It's no good blaming Osborne and the Tories for dismissing the use of the Pound as a shared currency as it just wouldn't be in rUK's interests to go down that route if Scotland chooses independence - we need to protect our own interests and underwriting Scotland's currency borrowings would not be in our interests. Simple..... so slippery Alex and his mates will have to come up with something better than Tory bashing as a deflection from the real issues very soon.



So, Salmond bashing is OK but Tory Bashing isn't?  Aye, right!  cheeky

I'll reiterate my point because you do not seem to be getting it.  Labour did not need Scotland's votes to win majorities in Westminster in the past, they will not need them in the future. 





Henry is off-lineSilver Member
20 February 2014 09:25
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The Isle of Man is not part of the UK. Nor is it part of the EU yet it still has the Queen as (nominal) head of state and uses Sterling for currency. This does not seem to have caused problems for anyone.

I do wonder if Scotland left the United Kingdom, would the task of rebuilding Hadrian's Wall go to an Italian contractor? 
I may as well do it. I'm gonna get blamed for it anyway.


Anthonygh is off-line
20 February 2014 09:31
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Quote from click_gotcha
If you live in Scotland now you will be eligible to vote in the referendum.  The eligibility rules are more or less the same as any election in Scotland.




This isn't just 'any election' and hopefully you can see the difference.

I have English friends temporarily living in Scotland who can vote...and know Scottish people temporarily living / working in London who can't. It is ironic that I know a Scots teacher here who can't vote but he has let his house in Glasgow to an English teacher who can!!

It stands to reason that Salmond will have less trouble persuading the Scots who currently reside in Scotland to vote to break up the UK than he would persuading those residing in other parts of the UK.....so a very good reason to deny them the vote. It would have been relatively easy to determine who, post independence (if it happens) would be entitled to hold a Scottish passport....and let them register as voters for this issue (should they wish) as their status might be permanently changed...so not like some local election etc.


click_gotcha is off-line
20 February 2014 09:52
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Quote from anthonyh
This isn't just 'any election' and hopefully you can see the difference.

I have English friends temporarily living in Scotland who can vote...and know Scottish people temporarily living / working in London who can't. It is ironic that I know a Scots teacher here who can't vote but he has let his house in Glasgow to an English teacher who can!!

It stands to reason that Salmond will have less trouble persuading the Scots who currently reside in Scotland to vote to break up the UK than he would persuading those residing in other parts of the UK.....so a very good reason to deny them the vote. It would have been relatively easy to determine who, post independence (if it happens) would be entitled to hold a Scottish passport....and let them register as voters for this issue (should they wish) as their status might be permanently changed...so not like some local election etc.



As I said, it is more or less who would be entitled to vote in any election in Scotland, I think that's fair.   



click_gotcha is off-line
20 February 2014 10:04
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Quote from Henry_Artist
The Isle of Man is not part of the UK. Nor is it part of the EU yet it still has the Queen as (nominal) head of state and uses Sterling for currency. This does not seem to have caused problems for anyone.

I do wonder if Scotland left the United Kingdom, would the task of rebuilding Hadrian's Wall go to an Italian contractor? 



If you rebuild Hadrian's wall, does that mean we get to keep half of Newcastle? smiley



Tony Stephenson is off-line
20 February 2014 12:09
tonycsm
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Quote from click_gotcha
So, Salmond bashing is OK but Tory Bashing isn't?  Aye, right!  cheeky

I'll reiterate my point because you do not seem to be getting it.  Labour did not need Scotland's votes to win majorities in Westminster in the past, they will not need them in the future. 




The SNP do nothing but Tory-bash.... that is how they operate so I don't see why a bit of Alex bashing shouldn't be allowed! Oh... I forgot, that is bullying!

The Labour MPs of Scotland may not have been needed when Nu Labour had their early landslide but without them now, if Scotland goes independent, Labour will find it hard to get back into power due to reduced numbers so I can't see the Labour Party supporting independence.

I'm certainly not a fan of left wing politics by any stretch of the imagination but the rUK would need a competent and substantial opposition party to keep those on the right, in check - we saw what happened when Nu Labour had such a huge majority... it was bad for the country!
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click_gotcha is off-line
20 February 2014 14:01
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Quote from tonycsm
The SNP do nothing but Tory-bash.... that is how they operate so I don't see why a bit of Alex bashing shouldn't be allowed! Oh... I forgot, that is bullying!



I'd rather we stuck to discussing the facts, I was simply pointing out that you appear to have double standards when it comes to Alex Salmond.

One thing I will say for the SNP is that they are attempting to debate the issues, unlike Mr Osborne who simply wants to lecture us and run away again.   It doesn't seem to be helping him though.  Next week David Cameron will bring his entire cabinet to SCotland but will refuse to debate any of the issues with the Yes campaign.  I wonder how much of a swing to to Yes that will result in?




Tony Stephenson is off-line
20 February 2014 15:25
tonycsm
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Quote from click_gotcha
I'd rather we stuck to discussing the facts, I was simply pointing out that you appear to have double standards when it comes to Alex Salmond.

One thing I will say for the SNP is that they are attempting to debate the issues, unlike Mr Osborne who simply wants to lecture us and run away again.   It doesn't seem to be helping him though.  Next week David Cameron will bring his entire cabinet to SCotland but will refuse to debate any of the issues with the Yes campaign.  I wonder how much of a swing to to Yes that will result in?





Why do you believe Osborne needs to debate the issue? FACT: ...He's made the position of the rUK government perfectly clear ...NO currency union! It's not in the interest of the rUK so there is no need for debating. 

FACT:....The UK as it's stands is not forcing Scotland to leave the Union... it's the SNP and it's supporters with their independence dreams which is driving the wedge between the two countries....it's up to the SNP to solve the problems of currency and all the other things that will no doubt crop up after independence.

FACT....Once it's gone independent, Scotland will be on it's own and we in rUK will have no responsibility for Scotland or it's population... FACT: ....that will be the responsibility of whoever is in charge if the people of Scotland choose to go down the route of independence.

Instead of trying to get a futile debate with the rUK government, Salmond should stop deflecting criticism from himself and the SNP by attributing blame on Westminster for such as failed currency union - he and his SNP party need to explain to the people of Scotland why his plans are in tatters and where they go from here.

As the Nationalists are always reminding us, it's an issue for the people of Scotland, so let them get on with it.  

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