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Mark Duggan - Lawful killing

10 January 2014 16:20
JadedRed
Model


Quote from stolenfaces
 It seems that no-one on this forum was in court so are not in a position to judge this issue.



Of course we are, we're doing it right now, look.

Quote from stolenfaces
Personally I would have thought that any 'execution' would have been better planned and there would not have been all the holes in the case.



You have more faith in their competence than I.


Don is off-line
10 January 2014 16:24
DonMacKay
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DonMacKay
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West Yorkshire
Keighley

Quote from OldMaster
Judge, opinion and justice served out by forum..as usual. Guess we can all wait for the tabloids to tell us the real truth about the trial! How many on here were in the court then? That's what I thought! ...



Here is all the information from the Mark Duggan Inquest and, as such, it is a close to "the truth" as you will get (for what it's worth):

http://dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/hearing-transcripts.htm

Somehow, I don't think you'll take the time to read it and, as you clearly weren't at the trial, I'd love to know where your trusted information comes from. I ask because the finding was that this was a "lawful killing" and not "unlawful" as you state (I suspect this is a simple mistake on your part), and we don't have a "verdict" in inquests these days as they are not a trial. 
 



Glasgow Photographer is off-line
11 January 2014 04:00
GlasgowPhotographer
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GlasgowPhotographer
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Strathclyde
Glasgow

From the statements given he only had minor convictions - driving convictions at that. It would appear that this now makes you a gangster in the eyes of many.

Trial by hearsay and dubious media "facts" always make for a great juror.

They arrived at the decision after hearing all the evidence - others heard all the evidence and arrived at another opinion. Guess that is why we swear in Jurors.
Regards, George http://www.monapics.com/html/blog.html


Moi is off-line
11 January 2014 06:11
clearview_photography
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clearview_photography
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County Durham
North East

Quote from GlasgowPhotographer

From the statements given he only had minor convictions - driving convictions at that. It would appear that this now makes you a gangster in the eyes of many.

Trial by hearsay and dubious media "facts" always make for a great juror. They arrived at the decision after hearing all the evidence - others heard all the evidence and arrived at another opinion. Guess that is why we swear in Jurors.



Similar to that 'great' tax evader Al Capone, some people called him a gangster 

The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose." - James Baldwin


Iain Thomson is off-linePlatinum Member
11 January 2014 06:37
IainT
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IainT
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United Kingdom
Bedfordshire


Out of every 3000 incidents where armed Police are deployed, they open fire once. There are still Police force areas where no shots have been fired by Police in living memory.

In Grampian and the Highlands there are by far the highest number of legally held firearms per head of population anywhere in the country, there is something like 1 firearm to every 50 people or something like that. There is also the highest percentage of Police Officers authorised to carry firearms anywhere in the UK (due to Royalty Protection and vitaly important gas/oil terminals, high security prisons)

Yet, no armed Police officer has discharged a firearm in modern times as far as I'm aware, despite some very tense incidents where armed officers have been deployed.

The stress armed Police Officers are placed under in a real situation is something nobody who has not been there can imagine and something even armed services personel cannot envisage. Its a totally different thing to a war or conflict situation.

Armed Police officers go through all sorts of psychological evaluation and stress testing...these guys are generally the calmest of the calm.

In this incident a *gangster was shot dead. The Jury found it was lawfull. There is no argument either legally or ethically.

My sympathy is not with the family of the gangster who chose a life of violence and crime, its with the Police officer and his family who have had to go through months of hell.

*You can argue if you like his convictions were only road traffic related, but he WAS a violent criminal and habitually carried a firearm.
I tend to be a modest man, but then I do have a lot to be modest about.


Sav~ is off-lineGold Member
11 January 2014 07:41
SteveSav
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SteveSav
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West Yorkshire
Sheffield/ Wakefield

Quote from JadedRed
If we shoot everyone for cannabis possession we are going to end up with some empty universities.



seems you've forgotten the small detail of the gun HuH!

You pick your blonde out neatly from the smoke, Always you wait for someone else though, always ~


11 January 2014 07:54
JadedRed
Model


Quote from SteveSav
seems you've forgotten the small detail of the gun HuH!




No not forgotten, I just think it's interesting that it's only important enough to be a factor when combined with minor, non-violent crimes.


11 January 2014 07:55
JadedRed
Model


Quote from IainT
There is no argument either legally or ethically.



Of course there can be an ethical argument, there is always an ethical argument.


Tony Stephenson is off-line
11 January 2014 08:03
tonycsm
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tonycsm
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East Yorkshire
Driffield

Quote from SteveSav
seems you've forgotten the small detail of the gun HuH!




Would that be the gun that he is alleged to have thrown away before the taxi had stopped or the gun in the sock he is supposed to have fired at the officers or is that the gun which mysteriously flew over the fence after he was shot or the gun which was in the box in the taxi? 

You've got plenty of choices so pick one!

www.le-femme.co.uk


Neil Anderson is off-line
11 January 2014 08:14
stolenfaces
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stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

Quote from tonycsm
Would that be the gun that he is alleged to have thrown away before the taxi had stopped or the gun in the sock he is supposed to have fired at the officers or is that the gun which mysteriously flew over the fence after he was shot or the gun which was in the box in the taxi? 



You've got plenty of choices so pick one!






No one is claiming he didn't have a gun, the person who supplied it to him before he got in the taxi was convicted and sentenced to 11 years. I don't understand what the ethical argument is here.
Are you saying the police should have waited until he shot someone ?
Or that they deliberately shot him although they knew he wasn't holding a gun? Because they didn't like him ?

Many aspects of this affair may not have been handled well, but I don't really see how any of the vague distrust of the police sheds any light on this incident.
Are people suggesting he was a petty criminal who just collected guns?
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...



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