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Mark Duggan - Lawful killing

Steve Guy is off-line
09 January 2014 19:53
Sdeve
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Derbyshire
Derby

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are happy to let the police kill anyone whom they think deserves death. Often these same people seem to condemn 'vigilantes' or people who 'take the law into their own hands'. The only thing that seems to matter is that the person killed must not be known to the people who think this, and the deceased had a bit of a reputation. The vigilantes in this case, as in many others, are wearing police uniform.


09 January 2014 20:21
JadedRed
Model


Quote from mph
And 10 of whom didn't?



8.


09 January 2014 20:35
JadedRed
Model


Quote from RedChecker
There was an interesting documentary on TV a couple of years ago regarding whitness accuracy and how something out of the blue can cause confusion when recalling what happened.  They even performed an elaborate heist with guns being fired (while the witnesses were watching) and the variations in recollection of what happened varied wildly.

It may well be that tests have proven that if you have a rough idea of what was going on (as the police at the scene did) then their version of events is statistically more likely to be correct in comparison to those who were mere bystanders at the scene.



Except the versions initially given weren't correct, regardless of witness statements.



Tony Stephenson is off-line
10 January 2014 00:09
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
Location
United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Driffield

Everyone will have their own opinion on the Duggan shooting and I won't try to change that but if what I've read in the many newspaper reports covering the case are correct, then there are far too many inconsistencies regarding the evidence given by the police about the events which led to Duggan's killing, which in turn should set alarm bells ringing for those who seek the truth.

From my perspective this case is like all the other police shootings which have gone wrong...full of police misinformation, questionable evidence and typical character assassination in order to cover up police incompetence or worse!

This clouding of the facts in turn makes it near impossible for inquest juries to arrive at any other decision/conclusion than Lawful Killing which brings into question as to whether we can actually trust our judicial system to get it right!

Whether or not Duggan was a gangster is not the issue here...it's whether the police got it wrong and covered it up - that should be the concern of everyone!
www.le-femme.co.uk


Sav~ is off-lineGold Member
10 January 2014 07:39
SteveSav
Photographer
SteveSav
Location
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Sheffield/ Wakefield

Quote from OldMaster
Judge, opinion and justice served out by forum..as usual. Guess we can all wait for the tabloids to tell us the real truth about the trial! How many on here were in the court then? That's what I thought! Its clear the victim, in his aunt's own words apparently, was no angel but what is also clear is that the gun found by the police was some 20ft away. These are recorded facts. The unlawful killing verdict is perhaps questionable as he was unarmed when shot. What I do respect is his remaining family requesting there be no retaliation or reaction on the street and I understand they will be going for appeal through the justice system..a brave venture for those that perhaps have not come from the higher socio-economic groups. What it highlights again for me is that regardless of the police action in this particular case is that this country as a society is prepared to accept the existence of under classes, often parentless or one remaining parent families living with virtually no chance of ever finding "work" and probably been surviving on benefits for two to three generations. Can one wonder why they might create their own society within these confines. Some may consider the establishment just popping along and shooting them as ok but in truth whilst we are prepared to accept the ever widening gap between the hugely wealthy and the poor, the scams of the rich, the politicians, the CEO's of privatised companies and the relentless unfair cuts to all welfare recipients and God Forbid the middle classes and not forgetting the sum outcome of this is the outrageous xenophobic reaction now to those who are perfectly entitled to come and work in this country actually producing a net gain to the GDP, we all fail to see the real issues? Until some real effort, money and investment is put into the ever increasingly large areas of deprivation we will continue to see riots and gangs. Its the inevitable result of people feeling they are on the rubbish heap. But of course it won't happen because there is really no desire to make it happen. As long as "these people" only shoot and kill each other and not "the nice people" we can live with it? And if they really get out of order we can just go in and shoot them..it will have the support of the rest of society?



What planet are you on? If you're a thug, a gangster or a blackguard with previous and you drive around armed with a gun, hopefully the police will get to you first and releive the streets of more scum...............................get real man!
You pick your blonde out neatly from the smoke, Always you wait for someone else though, always ~


Neil Anderson is off-line
10 January 2014 08:13
stolenfaces
Photographer
stolenfaces
Location
United Kingdom
London
West London

The Jury's job was to consider whether the Policeman who shot Duggan believed that Duggan posed a deadly threat (ie whether he genuinely believed that Duggan was holding a gun).
As there was (uncontested) evidence that Duggan had collected a gun and that the same gun was found at the scene it is not totally unreasonable that the Policeman could mistake Duggan's actions as threatening to use the gun.
It therefore comes down to whether the Jury believed the (shooter) Policeman's evidence. It seems that no-one on this forum was in court so are not in a position to judge this issue.

Personally I would have thought that any 'execution' would have been better planned and there would not have been all the holes in the case.

It seems likely that armed police will in future wear cameras, and that will hopefully add clarity to future incidents.
Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...


Tony Stephenson is off-line
10 January 2014 10:26
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
Location
United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Driffield

Quote from stolenfaces
. It seems likely that armed police will in future wear cameras, and that will hopefully add clarity to future incidents.



That is until they get it wrong again and then I wonder how many cameras will be found to be faulty at the time of the incident!

www.le-femme.co.uk


Paul Hodson is off-line
10 January 2014 15:08
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from JadedRed
8.



I stand corrrected - though it is still a 4:1 ratio.
Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk


Moi is off-line
10 January 2014 15:40
clearview_photography
Photographer
clearview_photography
Location
United Kingdom
County Durham
North East

Quote from mph
I stand corrrected - though it is still a 4:1 ratio.



OK, but dont do it again !!
The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose." - James Baldwin


10 January 2014 16:17
JadedRed
Model


Quote from SteveSav
What planet are you on? If you're a thug, a gangster or a blackguard with previous



If we shoot everyone for cannabis possession we are going to end up with some empty universities.



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