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'It can be 50 - 60 or even 70 shoots before you can even think of getting paid for work'

Jesfish is off-line
05 January 2014 09:37
jes
Model
jes
Location
United Kingdom
Suffolk
Lowestoft

I did one Tf shoot and then started to get paid.  You will find it's the photographers who never want to pay who suggest models undertake lots of Tf shoots before they are worthy of payment.


Bob is off-linePlatinum Member
05 January 2014 10:00
Bob
Photographer
Bob
Location
United Kingdom
Devon
Honiton

Quote from profilepictures
It can be 50 - 60 or even 70 shoots before you can even think of getting paid for work


For some who describe themselves on t'internet as being a model - e.g. those talentless short and obese people with a complexion like pizza that has fallen upside down on a carpet who only wish to shoot fashion* - that statement is probably just a simple fact of life. Working for a long period without payment is also a fact of life for many of those who wish to  establish themselves in many careers / professions / disciplines / vocations which are not based predominantly on looks and body attributes, though if they have the talent and brains to succeed in their chosen field and can stay the course these people will probably generate several times the minimum hourly rate once they have served their time.
Bob

*excluding those willing to bare baps & flaps for anyone who comes along waving a handful of fivers.



G Jack B is off-line
05 January 2014 11:27
Plymjack
Photographer
Plymjack
Location
United Kingdom
Devon
Plymouth

I have always told any prospective model that she needs to do 2 or 3 TF shoots - clothed and swimwear and then she will know if she can or she cant..

Several models have been told by "better" photographers then me that they need to do 3 or 4 tf art nude shoots to "understand" what is required! COMPLETE BS!
Real Bread Cook by day, BTL landlord & IT Guru - who said men can't multitask!


Gerry is off-line
05 January 2014 11:35
Gerry99111
Photographer
Gerry99111
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
Guildford

Telling someone to do x shots of TF is controlling.

Suggesting that someone may try at some point to get a particular style and quality of pictures in their portfolio to widen their appeal is being helpful.

Getting those pictures and experience may well require TF unless they are so striking that perhaps the advice should be get yourself in front of an agency ASAP and give T'Internet a wide berth.

It is completely wrong to suggest any model needs x shoots of TF UNLESS they are purely in it for the creativity and don't need the cash at all. Paid experience and satisfying a paying customer is valuable experience and the sooner you can do that, the more rounded you become.

Unfortunately, behind every new and attractive model, often lurks one or more controlling photographers looking to posses this person for themselves
If you have to ask why I do it, you will never understand the reason why


Jen Somerfield ♥ is off-lineGold Member
05 January 2014 18:37
JenSomerfield
Model
JenSomerfield
Location
United Kingdom
Bristol
Bristol

When I was new I didn't have a wardrobe together, my facial expressions were a bit hit and miss and I didn't know how to make the best out of the lighting setups in studios. I could tell I was ready when people were offering me paid work and I got the hang of what to do - people learn at different rates and 2 shoots with a great photographer is better than 20 shoots with someone who doesn't know how to direct or who's work isn't that good. we all learn at different rates so to say do x many shoots is unhelpful. Several photographers turned me down / ignored my message when I was new and asking for tf, to turn round a few months later and ask to work with me. You can guess my answer! It's your look and experience, that makes an amazing photo. Some photographers can't direct models so no matter what you look like they only want to pay experienced models.


HowardJ is off-line
06 January 2014 01:23
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
West Midlands

Quote from jes
I did one Tf shoot and then started to get paid.  You will find it's the photographers who never want to pay who suggest models undertake lots of Tf shoots before they are worthy of payment.


Yup.


08 January 2014 18:23
Stacey_M
Model
This member has been suspended


I started out doing TF shoots when I started modeling, way back in 2005 , I did TF until I felt comfortable that I had gained enough experience to start asking for paid work :-) I think I did about 10/15 shoots TF :-)


09 January 2014 02:25
Lisaliz
Model


Tf can be valuable, but this advice is giving licence for pure exploitation.


Skymouse is off-lineGold Member
10 January 2014 17:17
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Quote from profilepictures
I just saw this somewhere on the site, given as advice to new models.



Whoever made the ridiculous statement quoted in the title is, quite simply, someone trying to fool models into thinking they have to serve out a lengthy TFP "apprenticeship" or "trial" before paid work is feasible.

It is a lie. I repeat: it is a lie. A cruel one, too.

I know models who started getting paid work — for real, bona fide clients — after zero, one or very few shoots.

I gave a ONE YEAR CONTRACT to someone who had NEVER FORMALLY MODELLED IN HER LIFE. That was over 18 months ago; there is a renewed contract which has upped the amount of guaranteed work for her at the guaranteed rate. Thousands of pounds have therefore been committed to someone who approached me as a NEWBY. Why??? How??? Because she suited the job. Oh yeah .... and it should be mentioned that in some spheres, there's a premium on new faces.

Other models I've worked with got their first jobs outside of the Internet Portfolio Site environment, and hence had never even heard of TFP.

In some cases, models may choose to do TFP for some time before charging because they have identified a benefit in doing so or they may just prefer it. Sometimes there may also be a particular style of image they want for getting their portfolio started and TFP with a GOOD photographer (or paying a photographer) may be a fasttrack. This is also obviously reasonable.

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.


11 January 2014 13:37
laylarc
Model


Just my own experience - I was paid a nominal amount for my first shoot, and my third & fourth shoots were fully paid.

I was fortunate enough to TF with somebody very experienced, who gave me good advice, great photos & didn't bulllaylarc is a naughty person me (Paolo Loraso). Clearly not everyone is so fortunate.



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