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Feedback system - "not recommended"

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SimonB is off-lineGold Member
24 December 2013 05:15
DaseinPhoto
Photographer
DaseinPhoto
Location
United Kingdom
Essex
Epping

There are inherent faults in any feedback system both on the positive and negative side. For example would you weight feedback from me the same as a long time professional? I've had shoots that have not gone as well as I'd hoped because we've just not connected, I wouldn't leave a negative as it could be just as much my fault as the model's. If I leave a glowing reference there's no way of judging if my expectations are lower than a pro (btw I don't think they are particularly and I stand by everything positive I've ever said about the fantastic people I've worked with on here)

On balance I would come down on the side of those that think that the dangers of comments on negative feedback outweigh the advantages. I think the key to it is that they are effectively and efficiently moderated so that false negatives can be removed. Let's focus on the positives about each other and exercise some caution and due diligence in the case of a negative.
I got the secret to happiness from the back of a bleach bottle - "Stand upright in a cool place"


Chrissie Red is off-line
24 December 2013 06:41
Chrissie_Red
Model
Chrissie_Red
Location
United Kingdom
Tayside
Perthshire

Quote from Claypaws
Why then do you write positive feedback for anyone as one assumes you would recommend readers to disregard your feedback as you disregard that of others? The reason I think the issue matters is that anyone can become a victim of what I see as a danger in the system. Though I have not been involved in either side of this issue I flag it for the same reason as I might report an accident hazard on the road. One day any of us might be the one to come a cropper on it.



If photographers didn't misbehave and models always turned up on time and did the job they were paid to do then there wouldn't be a need for feedback but until that happens then we need to put up with what we have. I'm sure purestorm used to have the comment section available for both positive and negative references (although I may be wrong) so I'm guessing they decided to stop using it for a decent reason.

I see your point but I look at it this way - 

Whats the worst a model has been accused of doing - not showing up to a shoot/ not bringing a pair of nylons/ not turning up on time..

Where as the experiences from models about photographers make me want to fu%^king cry sometimes, models put up with a Chrissie_Red is a naughty person load of Chrissie_Red is a naughty person and if decent reference checks are done it minimises the liklihood one of them will end up being raped. I say the seeking references in private does a crap load more than this or any other site does to help protect models.






HowardJ is off-line
24 December 2013 06:47
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
West Midlands

Quote from Claypaws

So how would you have felt if she had left you negative feedback first, thereby preventing you from leaving negative feedback for her?




I would of complained to PS and had it removed. People have privately contacted me since about it and I have explained the situation to them including when she said "if you don't like the way I pose you can leave" which is exactly what I did after getting her to sign the release form, pose for ID pics and then I paid her for the time we had shot. She slammed the door behind me like a spoilt child, which is why I left the feedback as I could not recommend her based on her behaviour or her ability to take simple direction like avoid poses which create pointy sticking out elbows to which her response this is how I pose and other people are ok with it.


Chosin is a moderatorPlatinum Member
24 December 2013 07:12
Chosin
Model
Chosin
Location
United Kingdom
Hampshire


An explanation of the feedback system and how it works is given here:-
G14 ~§~ The Feedback System ~§~
I am old enough to say I have done it, and still young enough to do it again! ;}


Claypaws is off-lineGold Member
24 December 2013 11:14
Claypaws
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
North Yorkshire


Quote from Chrissie_Red
and if decent reference checks are done it minimises the liklihood one of them will end up being raped. I say the seeking references in private does a crap load more than this or any other site does to help protect models.



I agree with that. I too am appalled by the experiences some models have described to me.

Thank you, and indeed everyone who has commented, for constructive and courteous discussion. I was aware of the site's notes on how the feedback system works but wanted to see if my view was generally shared. At least amongst those who have commented, it seems that the consensus is with the status quo, despite the burden it places on moderators to investigate individual cases.



Ian MACFADYEN is off-lineSilver Member
24 December 2013 11:45
Kiboko
Photographer
Kiboko
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
GUILDFORD

My overall impression is generally that no-one takes any notice of feedback. I'm not even confining that observation to this site. I once booked a model who failed to show and told all my photographic contacts, but they continued to book her because she looked great. The fact I suggested we show solidarity didn't cut any ice because the model was gorgeous and they were more than willing to take the risk. So my verbal, critical feedback was ignored. And that's between friends! So I can't see anyone taking a lot of notice of negative feedback were I to give it, although I never yet have, on here. One thing I would add, - nearly left negative feedback for a model with whom I booked a studio shoot on here a while back; she notified me she couldn't come, the day before I think it was, left me high and dry with studio fee, but I couldn't provide neg. f/b because she'd notified me within the time limit provided by Purestorm. It's not long enough!


HowardJ is off-line
24 December 2013 12:34
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
West Midlands

There's been a few times where models have cancelled due to I'll health or family problems and as it's not really caused me a problem I've not left negative feedback.


HowardJ is off-line
24 December 2013 12:36
HowardJ
Photographer
HowardJ
Location
United Kingdom
Surrey
West Midlands

There's been a few times where models have cancelled due to I'll health or family problems and as it's not really caused me a problem I've not left negative feedback.


Skymouse is off-lineGold Member
24 December 2013 12:52
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Quote from HowardJ
There's been a few times where models have cancelled due to I'll health or family problems and as it's not really caused me a problem I've not left negative feedback.



Same here.

Also, they haven't been cancellations; they've been reschedules. It doesn't make sense to permanently cancel a shoot just because the model got ill or had some problem that prevented the shoot happening on the date originally scheduled. That'd be chopping off the nose to spite the face.  If the shoot is not rescheduled (or at least put on hold with the understanding that it will be rescheduled) and there isn't some impedimenet to rescheduling (e.g. the model is about to relocate abroad, or it was a one-off opportunity that depended on some external events, etc) I'd regard that as the PHOTOGRAPHER* cancelling the shoot, not the model!

* Unless of course the model indeed has declined to reschedule.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.


Claypaws is off-lineGold Member
24 December 2013 13:11
Claypaws
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
North Yorkshire


My OP was not referring to cancellations or no shows since those have their own dedicated option and rules in the feedback system. I was concerned about the abuse of the categories of negative feedback that have no facility to give a reason. And specifically in a situation where one party gives false negative feedback to block the possibility of receiving negative feedback themselves.

But this a free forum and people can of course discuss whatever they like

As I said, it appears that others are content with the system and I accept that.



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