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Legal advice on lost wages following arrest.

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20 December 2013 19:05
PaulManuell
Photographer


Ok, I'll ask seeing as no one else has - what were you arrested for, and for what reason did the police suspect you?


GCImages is off-line
20 December 2013 19:30
GSC4X
Photographer
GSC4X
Location
United Kingdom
Gloucestershire
Gloucester

It doesn't matter...none of us are qualified to give legal advice and if we were, we wouldn't do it for free!!!!


20 December 2013 22:10
PaulManuell
Photographer


I'm not bothered about any of that, the only reason I asked was plain old curiosity and nosiness.


Rich G is off-line
21 December 2013 02:59
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
Location
United Kingdom
Kent


Quote from PaulManuell
I'm not bothered about any of that, the only reason I asked was plain old curiosity and nosiness.



Ha ha Paul smiley
As I understand it, someone in the High Street where I was had been reported on several occasions for pestering people with a camera and since I met this guy's description and was carrying one, was asked to help with enquiries. Since they believed there was a possible charge involving indecent images, they asked for all my camera gear, laptops, pc etc. Obviously being a photographer, I had 1000s of images they wanted to check, not forgetting prints, slides, cd's etc. I also used to work with a couple of child modelling agencies years ago and these days do voluntary work with disadvantaged kids and the Samaritans, which probably meant they needed to be extra vigilant, which I completely understand. 
As I say, I don't have any great issues with the law or the police services - I'd just like to be able to get my day's wages back as it wasn't my fault I couldn't go to work!
HAPPY TO WORK UP TO OPEN WALLET LEVELS


Paul Hodson is off-line
21 December 2013 04:17
mph
Photographer
mph
Location
United Kingdom
Cheshire
Crewe

Quote from SMILESPHOTO
Ha ha Paul

As I understand it, someone in the High Street where I was had been reported on several occasions for pestering people with a camera and since I met this guy's description and was carrying one, was asked to help with enquiries. Since they believed there was a possible charge involving indecent images, they asked for all my camera gear, laptops, pc etc. Obviously being a photographer, I had 1000s of images they wanted to check, not forgetting prints, slides, cd's etc. I also used to work with a couple of child modelling agencies years ago and these days do voluntary work with disadvantaged kids and the Samaritans, which probably meant they needed to be extra vigilant, which I completely understand. 

As I say, I don't have any great issues with the law or the police services - I'd just like to be able to get my day's wages back as it wasn't my fault I couldn't go to work!



Helping is one thing - being locked up is another!
Amateur - happy to do TF with models with potential and enthusiasm. Website: www.mphodson.co.uk


Tony Stephenson is off-line
21 December 2013 04:18
tonycsm
Photographer
tonycsm
Location
United Kingdom
East Yorkshire
Driffield

Rich.....you don't need to involve solicitors etc if you don't wish to......simply send them a bill for lost wages and other reasonable out of pocket expenses and make it clear that you will pursue the matter in the courts after 7 days if they fail to respond.
Imply that involving the courts would also bring about legal costs  and a possible compensation claim for wrongful arrest so they will be unlikely to want that! Just include the clause .. "time is of the essence" with regard to their expected response when you send them the letter and state that no further correspondence will be entered into after that date other than through a solicitor. They will have to respond.

I once threatened to sue Jack Straw who was Home Secretary at the time because they'd failed to pay me compensation 5 months ( which should have been a few weeks )  after I'd surrendered my my handguns when they were banned in the 90's after the Dunblane tragedy - I got my money within a week after being told by bthe department handling the compensation claims that it could have been up to a further year before being paid out so, don't be afraid to challenge them!

I sent my letter to the solicitors who were acting for the HS at the time - they freaked out saying I couldn't do it but the day after I got their letter, I got my cheque so even government bodies don't like legal action against them.

You can always resort to legal action if that fails - just a thought..... do you have general legal protection which you purchased with your home insurance? If you have, test it out to see if it would cover you for legal cover in that instance!

Tony
www.le-femme.co.uk


21 December 2013 05:10
PaulManuell
Photographer


Thanks for satisfying my curiosity, Smilesphoto, much appreciated. Hope you manage to get the compensation you're after and rightly deserve.


Steve Guy is off-line
21 December 2013 06:10
Sdeve
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Derbyshire
Derby

22 years as a police officer, a total of 32 years law enforcement experience, and much study of unlawful arrest / imprisonment, OK I might not be qualified in the formal sense but I know a bit.

As I said, for any arrest to be lawful it has, since 2005, needed to be necessary. There has been significant case law on this that the police know full well what they are doing, and sufficient misdemeanours on their part to know that they are still routinely abusing their powers. The following court report has the best explanation and is pretty definitive. You'll have to copy and past it into your address bar, I don't know how to do links on this board.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2013/243.html

So, was it necessary to arrest you to achieve the desired result? In your case the desired result would be to a) identify you and b) if the complaint warranted it, seize your computers etc. for examination. Did you have ID on you? If yes, then the ID thing is done. The problem then is seizing your gear. Was it necessary to arrest you in order to do this? The police will say it was, because an arrest gives them the power to search your residence, which they would obviously want to do. But then they would say that, wouldn't they.

Firstly, there's the matter of whether the initial complaint was sufficient to warrant your detention in a cell for so long. Almost anyone pointing a camera in the vicinity of a young person in public these days is likely to get a complaint. That would not ordinarily provoke an arrest without further info. You say you worked with organisations that involved children but I assume they didn't know this at the time of the arrest, so that is likely to be irrelevant to the arrest.

Unless there is more to this tale, it will, IMO, come down to the strength and nature of the complaint made. If the complaint was just "There's some bloke here taking pictures of kids on the street." then IMO that is insufficient for arrest. If it was along the lines of "This bloke's back again and he's not only taking pictures of kids he's asking them to go back to his house. That's the fifth time this week and he's annoying everyone." then that might have some substance for arrest, whether or not the bloke concerned was you.

In such cases as these, where there is a need to examine your computers etc. there is no purpose at all in interviewing you until the gear has been examined. That won't happen overnight, or even over several months, as you probably already realise. So, having arrested you, perhaps lawfully, it may still have been unlawful for them to detain you. The easiest and most practical solution would have been to take you, still under arrest, to your home, let you watch while they search, take your gear and leave you at home. So there is the possibility of unlawful imprisonment because it wasn't necessary to keep you in custody.

The first thing to do is to make a formal complaint to what is laughingly called their Professional Standards Department. You need to establish what exactly was done and why. It's likely that you will be mislead and obstructed on this, but it's a necessary step. Do not minimise your complaint. Stick to the facts, leave the hurt feelings for any civil case. Once this has worked it's way through to the bitter end and the police have totally exonerated the officers involved, and every other police officer past present or future, then you got to see a solicitor, with, hopefully, a great deal more information that you have at present.

While a letter now demanding recompense may not go amiss, you may be limiting a later claim by sending it. At least mark it boldly as "Without Prejudice." It will be, I predict, a waste of time and paper, unless your case is utterly bombproof which I doubt. I think you may have a good chance but it's going to take some work.


Rich G is off-line
21 December 2013 10:52
SMILESPHOTO
Photographer
SMILESPHOTO
Location
United Kingdom
Kent


Thanks for your advice Steve - it sounds like hard work!
HAPPY TO WORK UP TO OPEN WALLET LEVELS


Steve Guy is off-line
21 December 2013 17:45
Sdeve
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Derbyshire
Derby

Not so much hard work really. The main work is setting out your complaint fully, factually, and unemotionally. Then insisting communication is carried out in writing. You can have fun though if you arrange to meet the officer investigating the complaint and you covertly record the meeting. Then it's digging in for the long haul and not being taken in by their bull excrement. Rest assured they will make every effort to mislead you and obfuscate the circumstances. Regardless of the outcome, there may just be some mileage if you enquire, perhaps through a Freedom of Information request, what their policy is in relation to person arrested who are taken to a police station so far away that they have to take a train back home. The final decision has to be based upon how much you value your freedom and the rights given to everyone, including you, in this country.



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