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Feedback On The Casting Call Update

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Tim is a moderatorPlatinum Member
10 December 2013 14:36
Tim
Model
Tim
Location
United Kingdom
East Sussex
Brighton

Quote from paulbatterbury
I know it is hard as some categories cross over the boundaries into others, but as it currently stands “Adult” is very broad and unspecified 



Thanks for your reply Paul, your spot on with the cross over and the broad term, this is something we are looking at addressing and considering alternative options to what we currently have for greater clarification.
many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view


Skymouse is off-lineGold Member
18 December 2013 14:32
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Just underneath where it asks whether I'm looking for a model, or a photographer, etc, it also asks me "adult" or "non-adult". I thought membership was only for adults.

EDIT: sorry, just read some more posts here and I see that's referring to the genre in some way. I would advise clarifying what is meant by this. Also I'd like to know whether yoiu still classify all fetish content as "adult" which as a thread on here illustrated loud and clear not long ago, is misleading because a large percentage of models assumed that the old "Adult" flag meant the shoot included open-leg, insertion, penetration, masturbation, etc., and many fetish shoots include none of these elements.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.


Skymouse is off-lineGold Member
18 December 2013 14:40
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Also what box would I tick if I'm proposing a shoot that is neither paid (in either direction) nor TFP.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.


18 December 2013 16:11
paulbatterbury
Photographer


Quote from skymouse
Also what box would I tick if I'm proposing a shoot that is neither paid (in either direction) nor TFP.



Like a test shoot? 

remember those days

Kind Regards Paul http://www.paul-batterbury.com


Tim is a moderatorPlatinum Member
18 December 2013 17:51
Tim
Model
Tim
Location
United Kingdom
East Sussex
Brighton

Quote from skymouse
Also what box would I tick if I'm proposing a shoot that is neither paid (in either direction) nor TFP.



Your correct I don't think that fits with any of our current options. Can I ask how you would class that type of shoot? As Paul said, a test shoot?

The non-adult and adult is a broad term, we are considering alternative options to what we currently have for greater clarification. Any suggestions are always welcomed!
many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view


Photoman is off-lineSilver Member
19 December 2013 18:24
Antz
Photographer

Location
United Kingdom
Lancashire


The only bugbear I have with the new casting call list is to do with it being different to what it shows depending on which view you have selected.

By that I mean if I view the new one with the thumbnail images and allows me to select location/region I get it listing all castings but if I select the alternate view it shows only TFCD and I have to change this in the drop down box to any to allow me to see all castings

Is there no way to have the site remember my preferences or have it set to any as default ?


Skymouse is off-lineGold Member
19 December 2013 22:19
skymouse
Photographer
skymouse
Location
United Kingdom
London
London

Quote from Tim
Your correct I don't think that fits with any of our current options. Can I ask how you would class that type of shoot? As Paul said, a test shoot?



Hi Tim, thanks for your response. As Paul mentioned, a test shoot would be a good example, and I would guess this would be the most common type of shoot that is neither paid (in either direction) nor TFP.

In my own case, I've sometimes done shoots that work like this: a) I do a shoot that is commissioned by the model. She uses the images for her own gainful commercial project. It is entirely her project; I am a hired technical and creative person. b) The model, separately, works for me entirely for my commercial project. c) We set off the cost of the two shoots.

In the most recent instance, I stayed for two days on location performing videography tasks for the model. The video clips go in her shop and I have no stake in these. The model worked for me on three other days at two different locations modelling for my pay sites, in which she likewise has no stake.


Quote from Tim
The non-adult and adult is a broad term, we are considering alternative options to what we currently have for greater clarification. Any suggestions are always welcomed!



I'm not sure. I can think of several possiblilities but I don't know which would be best overall. Thinking about discussions I've had with models, the actual nature of the shoot seems to be more often important than the way it is used. Thus, although I may be shooting "porn" (because it is fetish subjects that is designed to sexually arouse the small target audience) I've often worked with models who don't go as far as "nude" in the conventional "levels" scheme of things. One of my most popular models ever didn't even do topless: she was completely conscious that we were makling porn, but that wasn't an issue for her.

There are obviously exceptions to this, and some models probably wouldn't even do a fully clothed shoot with nothing odd happening, and just standing there smiling, if the content were somehow targeted to people who would for some reason find the images sexually exciting. But the type of model preference I cited earlier seems more commonplace, at least in my experience.

I'd thus perhaps keep a Y/N for "Adult", but add a note saying that "Adult" means open-leg, insertion, masturbation, penetration, or depiction of aroused genitals.

Regarding the rule that all fetish subjects must have the Adult Flag ticked, I would change this because it is misleading since some fetish shoots don't involve any of the above. Two possible changes could be:
  1. Change "Adult" to "Adult or Fetish". Include the note about the meaning of Adult as above, and add a further note saying something like "Fetish means anything that most people don't consider sexual, but which is nevertheless being shot to sexually excite a target audience of people who find the particular subject arousing, Please note that the activity could be something everyday, but could also be something that some find distasteful, so user discretion is advised." I'm sure someone could find a better way of wording it, but that'd be the gist.
  2. Add the explanatory note about Adult as described earlier, and also have an additional (and independant) yes/no radio button for Fetish, along with an explanatory note for that as above.
I would favour the second of these options, as it separates out the issue of whether a shoot is Adult (which earlier discussions suggested that many models consider refers to what they're expected to do at the shoot rather than what the intended pupose of the content is) from the issue of whether it's Fetish. The casting call search options could be expanded to include or exclude these two factors independantly.

A third option would be to add the explanatory note about "Adult" as mentioned earlier, and add an extra radio button marked "porn" Y/N. A descriptive text would say "porn is anything that is intended to sexually excite the target audience, absolutely regardless of the details of what is shot."

This third one makes the most sense  to me of all, but I suspect it would cause various difficulties (not related to the understandability or usability of the system)  so it's probably not adbvisable.

In each case I would abolish the rule saying that casting for fetish subjects must have the Adult flag ticked, as this is made redundant in each case (and made less confusing).

Finally, I would also add the descriptions for "Adult" and (if option 2 is adopted) "Fetish" to the search system and anywhere that controls which castings a person sees. Some people find fetish subjects objectionable, and my proposed changes would help prevent such castings being accidentally viewed by thiose who don't want to see them.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx.


20 December 2013 05:48
paulbatterbury
Photographer


Quote from skymouse

In my own case, I've sometimes done shoots that work like this: a) I do a shoot that is commissioned by the model. She uses the images for her own gainful commercial project. It is entirely her project; I am a hired technical and creative person. b) The model, separately, works for me entirely for my commercial project. c) We set off the cost of the two shoots.




I see, like an availability notice.

it would offer models the photographers serveices and / or location. The model could either fully paid towards their shoot, or come to an agreement to share the content (both parties use it for their own gain), or off set the content set to set / video to video, where each party would have the equal number of sets, for their own use.  


Kind Regards Paul http://www.paul-batterbury.com


Tim is a moderatorPlatinum Member
20 December 2013 16:40
Tim
Model
Tim
Location
United Kingdom
East Sussex
Brighton

Quote from Antz
Is there no way to have the site remember my preferences or have it set to any as default ?



Hi Antz, Thanks for your reply, I've sent you a message as it would be great to talk further on this.

Quote from skymouse
Hi Tim, thanks for your response. As Paul mentioned, a test shoot would be a good example, and I would guess this would be the most common type of shoot that is neither paid (in either direction) nor TFP.



Hi Skymouse, Thanks for the reply too, great to get all these thoughts and ideas. You did cover a great deal which I would like to talk to you more on which I will message you but just to touch on the points you have brought up.

We did have an option for a test shoot before but unfortunately it got persistently misused with people advising it was a test shoot when that wasn't the case and were simply using this option to shoot models for free. It got to the point where it was causing more issues than not and we made a decision to remove it. We are always happy to revisit and relook at options but we wouldn't want the same scenario happening again.

Regarding the porn yes / no option, this isn’t something we would introduce as it isn’t a direction we want to go in. The term itself ‘adult’ is a broad term and can be interpreted differently which is why we are looking at options for removing it and replacing it with options that offer clearer and greater clarification.

Quote from paulbatterbury
It would offer models the photographers serveices and / or location. The model could either fully paid towards their shoot, or come to an agreement to share the content (both parties use it for their own gain), or off set the content set to set / video to video, where each party would have the equal number of sets, for their own use.



I think this would require a lot of thought on how that could work with much greater clarification on what is and isn't being offered as part of the shoot arrangement…food for thought. Thanks.


many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view


Peter Roach is off-lineGold Member
21 December 2013 08:18
flashysnapper
Photographer
flashysnapper
Location
United Kingdom
Staffordshire
burton on trent



Hi Tim, about 35 years ago I shot at the original Beehive studios in London and the gentleman who ran it
gave me the following breakdown of the different types of adult work.
1,art nude (closed legs)
2,uk magazine (open legs, labia showing)
3,us magazine (open legs, labia held open)
4,continental magazine (as above but including insertion of toys and/or fingers)
Don't know if this will be of any help,
Peter



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